110 vs. 135 Headsails - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 20 Old 11-12-2019
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

Ten years ago I went from a 30 footer with hanked sails to a 33 footer with a 135 on a furler. While I do miss the upwind performance of having the right headsail up, I don't miss having to change headsails when the wind is not what I expected or changes significantly. For most sailors, a headsail on a furler with a foam luff plus the ability to easily reef the main works well. If you race at other than a casual level, then a single headsail on a furler is not going to win you many races.
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post #12 of 20 Old 11-12-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

Thanks for all of the replies. I think the plan will be to eventually get a 110 if I can get one in good condition and reasonably priced at Bacon Sails. Although I don't race, I do enjoy trying to maximize performance when day sailing.
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post #13 of 20 Old 11-12-2019
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

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Originally Posted by Horace74 View Post
Thanks for all of the replies. I think the plan will be to eventually get a 110 if I can get one in good condition and reasonably priced at Bacon Sails. Although I don't race, I do enjoy trying to maximize performance when day sailing.
You might even find that a 110 is a better all around sail in anything but really light conditions. Your boat is similar to my old Santana in that it was designed to have "meat on the rail" and when you are short handed you probably get overpowered quickly.

Tacking a jib is much easier than tacking a Genoa!

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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

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Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
You might even find that a 110 is a better all around sail in anything but really light conditions. Your boat is similar to my old Santana in that it was designed to have "meat on the rail" and when you are short handed you probably get overpowered quickly.

Tacking a jib is much easier than tacking a Genoa!

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That't an interesting point ShockT and one I had not thought of. I don't start to feel overpowered with the 135 until we hit 12 knots or so at which time I put one reef in the main. The only reason I didn't reef on Sunday was because we were fairly close to home by the time the wind got up to 15-16 knots. I would say that 15-20 knots is not the "norm" in my sailing area so it's hard for me to envision a 110 being my primary headsail. My boat is fairly light and maybe the 110 would not be under powered in 8-12 knots of wind? If I end up buying it I will definitely experiment in various wind conditions.
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

I'm not familiar with your boat, but, I agree with ShockT, If you think about reefing the main @ 12 knots, I'm guessing that you may really like the 110 for all but light air conditions. My old Bristol 29 was very happy with the 110 most of the time.
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post #16 of 20 Old 11-12-2019
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

The San Juan 28's were pretty typical IOR race boats of their day. (I actually have one at the dock at my house that belongs to a friend) They were designed to be sailed with 150% genoas and to have a pretty large sail inventory, typically a 150, 130 to 135, 110,and a 90 in addition to spinnakers, and spinnaker staysails. As others noted they were also intended to be sailed with a lot of weight on the rail (probably around 800 to 1000 lbs of crew weight on the rail). Because of the hull design, lack of stability, and rig proportions their sails tend to have a pretty narrow wind speed range. And then you are sailing on the Chesapeake Bay with its predominantly light winds punctuated by short chop and changeable conditions.

Minimally you would want an "A.P." 135% genoa for most conditions. A 135% won't sail well in really light winds, but should come alive around 6-8 knots of breeze. As the breeze builds into the low teens, the first thing would be to reef the main and not change the jib since these boats have a tendency to build a lot of weather helm and wipe out when heeled. If the 135% jib had a foam luff, you probably could furl that down to about a 125% and carry that into the mid-teens and maybe slightly above that. After that a 110% would be a lovely sail. The 110% should be cut pretty flat and have as much luff as possible to give it the widest wind range. It should be a decent sail from somewhere in the low teens to the high teens and maybe a little higher.

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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

Maybe pair an a-sail with 110 on furler
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

Perrsonally we sail the Chesapeake and find our best combo is 135 from heavy spring air, fall air and offshore. 155 for summer lighter airs. We rarely used a 110 as we’ve always gotten a good reefing headsail.

Haleakula is a mast head sloop with centerboard. Reef the main first works best for us at 20 , then both jib and main at 22. Every boat balances differently though

The nice thing about rolling in a 135 to 110 upwind is when you turn to go downwind you can just let it out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
The San Juan 28's were pretty typical IOR race boats of their day. (I actually have one at the dock at my house that belongs to a friend) They were designed to be sailed with 150% genoas and to have a pretty large sail inventory, typically a 150, 130 to 135, 110,and a 90 in addition to spinnakers, and spinnaker staysails. As others noted they were also intended to be sailed with a lot of weight on the rail (probably around 800 to 1000 lbs of crew weight on the rail). Because of the hull design, lack of stability, and rig proportions their sails tend to have a pretty narrow wind speed range. And then you are sailing on the Chesapeake Bay with its predominantly light winds punctuated by short chop and changeable conditions.

Minimally you would want an "A.P." 135% genoa for most conditions. A 135% won't sail well in really light winds, but should come alive around 6-8 knots of breeze. As the breeze builds into the low teens, the first thing would be to reef the main and not change the jib since these boats have a tendency to build a lot of weather helm and wipe out when heeled. If the 135% jib had a foam luff, you probably could furl that down to about a 125% and carry that into the mid-teens and maybe slightly above that. After that a 110% would be a lovely sail. The 110% should be cut pretty flat and have as much luff as possible to give it the widest wind range. It should be a decent sail from somewhere in the low teens to the high teens and maybe a little higher.

Jeff
Great analysis Jeff! Generally, in 4-8 knots of wind we use the 160, from 8-12 the 135 is perfect, from 12-16 we put 1 reef in the main and furl the 135 a bit. If the forecast starts at 17+ we don't go out. A 110 would definitely give us more range based on what you said.
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-13-2019
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Re: 110 vs. 135 Headsails

My Jeanneau Arcadia is basically the same boat. Altho a newer design. Boat dimensions are inches apart, rating with in 3 or 6 seconds.

I have a 155 I race with, Depending upon wind speed and air temps, I can get to around 20 knots, 80F temps. If in the 40-55 range, maybe 15 with 3-4 folks on the rail. If it is just the spouse and I, I find the 140 is on par, similar wind speeds before reffing as my 155. Anything over 15-20 knots, the 110 is the better option for a head sail. I find this works to around 20-25, then a reef or generally I go two right off the bat.
With that also said, I believe my boat is a bit stiffer than an SJ28 due to a newer hull form design, and mine is designed post fastnet race for IOR version 3 rules.

I would think a 110 or slightly smaller foretriangle footage would be a good option for ove 20 knot wind days.

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