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post #481 of 572 Old 12-08-2019
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

I don't want to waste time researching Jimmy Cornell.... likely an assumed name. He's an opportunist or exploiter for sure. Some will be willing to pay him for what he does.... I wouldn't.

I think there are a bunch of sailors who had compelling stories to tell. Some did vids, others wrote books. Don Street wrote and published some useful cruising guides. I bought some of his work and they were helpful. Books, unlike vids you can thumb through and find what you are looking for. A specific how to can be indexed... and be in YT form. Why not!

I was upset at the decision by Riley to sail when he did. Seemed reckless and imprudent. And as Dave points out there were several wizards of Oz in this story and that makes it even more a turn off.

Someone needs to walk up to this turkey at a boat show and read him the news.

Any volunteers?

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post #482 of 572 Old 12-09-2019
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
I don't want to waste time researching Jimmy Cornell.... likely an assumed name. He's an opportunist or exploiter for sure. Some will be willing to pay him for what he does.... I wouldn't....
Are you really unfamiliar with Jimmy Cornell? He's written the most popular world cruising route guide and circumnavigated several times. Raised his family on his first trip around the planet, iirc. It's fair to say he is legendary.

His involvement in this passage is suspect, but there is little accounting of his actual role. It seems he was involved with planning or recruiting Riley, but also told Greta not to go, if he didn't take on professional experienced crew. Then there is no mention of him.

In the end, professional crews make winter Atlantic passages with some frequency. It's insane, but it's done. The big objection here is that self-taught Riley and Elayna risked their one year old baby to do so. That's on them, not Cornell, not Outremer, even though I'm sure Outremer was delighted to have the exposure, if not encouraged it.


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post #483 of 572 Old 12-09-2019
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

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Are you really unfamiliar with Jimmy Cornell? He's written the most popular world cruising route guide and circumnavigated several times. Raised his family on his first trip around the planet, iirc. It's fair to say he is legendary.

His involvement in this passage is suspect, but there is little accounting of his actual role. It seems he was involved with planning or recruiting Riley, but also told Greta not to go, if he didn't take on professional experienced crew. Then there is no mention of him.

In the end, professional crews make winter Atlantic passages with some frequency. It's insane, but it's done. The big objection here is that self-taught Riley and Elayna risked their one year old baby to do so. That's on them, not Cornell, not Outremer, even though I'm sure Outremer was delighted to have the exposure, if not encouraged it.
Indeed I have heard of Cornell but know little about him except he organized some ocean rallies so cruisers could sail "together" for the passage. To many this provides more safety and I think it became popular. It's not a bad idea at all.

When I decided to do the ocean I entered the Marion-Bermuda race in 1991, not to race but to "experience" the ocean with the perceived safety of a fleet of boats with the same destination.

I have never read Cornell's books... nor know much about him. I had a vague understanding that he was an ocean sailor who had organized these flotillas and written some books.

It came as a surprise (I don't know why) that he was somehow involved in the Thunberg trip from the US to the environment conference. I can see how someone who is experienced and an accepted expert in ocean sailing might be called on... or might gratuitously offer to help out. Who in their right mind would refuse expert help?

But then I learn the intricacies of the SLV back story in this thread as I don't follow them at all. I recalled they had a French monohull and had a vlog. Now I learn that they somehow stepped up to a million dollar cat something they couldn't afford I assume. So there was obviously a quid pro quo. Outremer was "sponsoring" SLV for publicity. This is not unheard of... but maybe not at that scale???? I don't care.

In the thread there was an informed discussion about such crossings... weather routing and so on. Of course today they had sat comm and a professional weather router ashore. Why not? But who would advise Thundberg to hop aboard at this time of year? What did she know? NOTHING. To her mission sailing was the only way to go. I presume she relied on others to make it happen and with safety. Shouldn't her parents be "concerned"???? She's a minor still.

Upthread I learn that Cornell has a deal with Outreamer. Perhaps he's a millionaire now and can afford a custom cat. Who knows? Somehow the pieces came together. A young ocean racer was found to help the skipper. Wifey watched her toddler... and the experts told them where to go on the radio (I presume).

While the story ended well... and that's fabulous... there seemed to be something like "villians" in the tale. One of them was greed... another hubris... Of course all the players live to protect the environment. A story of triumph!

I could be wrong and I am often wrong. But the wizards of oz (outremer sycophants) leave a bad taste for me. Others may be impressed. I am turned off. Cornell comes off as something of a self serving pimp for Outremer. Nikki comes off as naive and not interested in the office and other politics. She was recruited to sail. And sail she did.

I wonder if any "bad" publicity will emerge from this tale or will it only add shine to SLV, Outremer and Cornell and of course the young heroines Greta and Nikki?
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post #484 of 572 Old 12-09-2019
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

100% agree.

They were fortunate, skillful in this trip though taking the infant shows a lack of judgement IMHO.
There are many tales of voyages taken on here despite the risks vs rewards scenarios. Not all end well. When they donít and there is a catastrophic ending the autopsy of it usually uncovers items like which in this case

1- sailing to a schedule in spite of weather/ sea conditions : going against established norms in route taken per time of year. Pressure either overt or subtle from Outsider to complete the voyage

2- lack of complete preparation- it seemed they left fairly quickly after deciding to go when the previous plan was not to cross the Atlantic that time of year

3- lack of skill in heavy weather conditions- not enough skillful helmsman present with two of them

4- failure to adequately vet crew and passengers

Hopefully this is not turned into a success campaign and encourages their many followers to take unnecessary risks. The danger is that it will.

I have never seen a Reality show turn into the death or serious injury of a participant.
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

Dave makes an excellent point.

People who subscribe, read about the trip online or in the papers will clearly not learn about the stupid this effort involved... they will come away with WOW how cool missing all the risk that was involved. And of course it will be marketed heavily... look what Outremer can do... look at how it can be shorthanded in brutal conditions... look at how brilliant the crew was and so on.

99.99% of the consumers of this effort will miss what may be the most important lessons... about sailing for sure.

I suppose they will produce an episode of the channel... to entertain subscribers.

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post #486 of 572 Old 12-09-2019
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Are you really unfamiliar with Jimmy Cornell? He's written the most popular world cruising route guide and circumnavigated several times. Raised his family on his first trip around the planet, iirc. It's fair to say he is legendary.

His involvement in this passage is suspect, but there is little accounting of his actual role. It seems he was involved with planning or recruiting Riley, but also told Greta not to go, if he didn't take on professional experienced crew. Then there is no mention of him.

In the end, professional crews make winter Atlantic passages with some frequency. It's insane, but it's done. The big objection here is that self-taught Riley and Elayna risked their one year old baby to do so. That's on them, not Cornell, not Outremer, even though I'm sure Outremer was delighted to have the exposure, if not encouraged it.




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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Cornell comes off as something of a self serving pimp for Outremer.
Jimmy Cornell is 'legendary' and rightly so. He has done more for the cruising idea than any other single person, or group that I know of. Not only that, he is continuing to do it. The other old & bold are dead or retired, but he, at 79 is building a new boat.

World Cruising Routes was the first book to use old sailing ship data to show modern sailing boats good safe passages around the world. Its in it umpteenth edition and has a spot on my (very limited) bookshelves. Its fair to say that EVERY current circumnavigator has World Cruising Routes by Jimmy Cornell on their boat, or wished they did.

Furthering Jimmys LEGENDARY status is his forming and designing, and operating for many years the ARC cruising rallys of the World Cruising Club. These rallys visit every continent and and have multiple starts each year from the USA, Europe, Australia etc. This years ARC from the Canaries to the Caribbean, currently underway, has over 200 boats participating. Yes, some participants are new cruisers but many are not. As an entry avenue to cruising these rallys have been instrumental in getting people of all walks of life into cruising.

To denigrate Jimmy Cornell in any way is to be ignorant. He is not a pimp. Nor ought he be denigrated for his original name of Dragoș Corneliu Cișmașu was changed when he emigrated to the UK for ease of pronunciation at a time of less acceptance of migrants.

***********

I do think that BS political term "ill advised" is relevant to this passage.

We have said on this forum MANY MANY times that a passage should NOT be constrained, or need to conform, by times, by crew, or ANY other EXTERNAL factor. As you know I say "Only ever sail in the best season". Attached is a shot of Jimmys own book saying the best months are May and June for this passage.

Jimmy Cornell has broken every rule of modern cruising for a political purpose outside the relevance of cruising, and perhaps, commercially blinded by a presumed sponsorship with Outremer.
So 'ill advised', imho, he has put a 1 year old at an unacceptable heightened risk... and his dismissal of its relevance in the translated article is dumfounding to say the least.

The thing that sickens me most about political motivations is they cloud people intelligence.
Here a 16 year old was put at risk too. She is too young and has a diagnosed mental condition, both proving she does NOT have the ability to make life and death decisions.
To me its simple: Why is the life of a 16 year old political activist worth more than a 1 year old?

More a personal thing: I am the owner and captain of my boat. If someone tells me I am not competent to do a passage then that passage should not be done. To have a co-captain or someone to look over my shoulder is utterly not acceptable.
I think the reason why it was done was, again, for the commercial and political reasons. Disgraceful.
As to reach landfall and people to say 'oh, Mark couldn't have done it himself'.
(This does not reflect on Nikki. I think she has done a terrific job)

Its wonderful they have achieved their passage, and achieved it so well. But it was wrong to do so. A family that attempts that trip next November because 'Riley and Greta did it' and dies... will be seared into my brain as un-necessary.



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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

Thanks Mark for the bio.... my knowledge about Cornell is limited. I am not nor have I ever considered "world cruising" so I haven't prepped for it in any way. It's great that there are books etc. about such things. Perhaps I went overboard on my characterization of Cornell. I was (wrongly) projecting by reading between the lines. This is not something anyone should do I suppose. So never met the man, nor read his books so what I wrote is not fact based.

Yet somehow, and for some reason(s) he was sort of a puppet master of this journey from what I read on this thread. Why? What was his motive since he must have known... given his experience... that his is the worst time of the year to make the attempt. We can surmise the motive of Outremer... publicity... the same for SLV.... more notoriety and subscribers etc. We know why Greta sailed, but not that she understood the risk. Same for her father. Nikki I presume is a gutsy young ocean sailor who loves challenges and wants to build her resume. Just a guess. Maybe she was paid?

What about the weather service? Aside from giving weather info is it expected for them to give green or red lights? I believe other routers do just that.... telling clients to sit tight,, when to go, where to head for better conditions and where not to for bad conditions. Do weather routers give routing advice sailors heading into the Caribe in hurricane season?

My own experience with routing was with SouthboundII and this was a free service from an amateur weather person, and sailor who worked from Bermuda. Many old salts will remember Herb and the great work he did helping sailors in the Atlantic mostly between the US, the Caribe and Central America. We listened to Herb and he gave sound advice. That was more than 20 years ago. Things have changed... we got all that satellite stuff.

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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

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ď
While Iím at it, in all the articles Iíve read about the trip, Cornell isnít mentioned except in the Swedish article. Wonder why?
IMO the problem is we are so use to "pack" Journalism and those reporters who just follow the narrative. It was pretty much "The Greta Show" for most of the media. Riley and Elyana were sometimes just that "Austrian" couple. Nikki was even lower on the list. So when the Swedish publication actually practiced very good Journalism (Who, What, When, Where and Why) it stands out and provides a much more interesting and informative story than just Greta sailed back to Europe on a boat. Digging into the background as the Swedish publication did will do that. It was refreshing to read it.

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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

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I have never seen a Reality show turn into the death or serious injury of a participant.
You're clearly not watching enough of them!
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Re: Sailing La Vegabond

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I have never seen a Reality show turn into the death or serious injury of a participant.
I'm sure a lot of people here have read A Voyage for Madmen by Peter Nichols, which is the story of the Sunday Times Golden Globe Race in 1968. In a way, that race was a reality show before cable TV and smartphones, and it did not end well for all participants especially Donald Crowhurst and Nigel Tetley, as most know.
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