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Stern light relocation.

4K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  Tuna Driver 
#1 ·
Does anyone know of a reason why you can't mount a stern light at the top of the mizzen mast to eliminate any blockage issues created by stern gear (dinghy, davit, or wind vane). It will be used in conjunction with the bow pulpit lights not the tri-color on the top of the main mast.
 

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#2 ·
I think it might be a bit of a problem in close quarters boat operation. It's hard enough to see other boats nearby in the dark without having to crane one's head to find a stern light somewhere up in the clouds.
In my experience, most stern lights are bright enough to be quite apparent to other boats even if a portion is temporarily obstructed. It's not as though the view is static, as any boat seeing your stern light will be moving, therefore changing how much they can see.
 
#6 ·
.....It will be used in conjunction with the bow pulpit lights not the tri-color on the top of the main mast.
This is worded a bit funny, so I'll just confirm/assume you don't mean you have both. In conjunction with bow pulpit lights, I do not believe there is any maximum height restriction for the stern light.

I like the idea of it being atop the mizzen. That has to be more, not less likely to be seen. It will still be below many large vessels. I had to raise mine to get it above the dinghy and have it attached on a support for the bimini. It washes more light into the cockpit than I'd prefer.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Might it not be misinterpreted as a steaming (masthead) light, especially if it is well above the side lights? If it was so confused, it would appear that yours is a powered vessel underway in the direction opposite of its actual travel.

All other things being equal, I effort to cross a conflicting vessel at its stern. This practice assures that, even if I misjudge the speed of the other vessel, the only way a collision can occur is when the other vessel is powering astern (backing up). The configuration you're describing could cause me to steer toward your bow instead, increasing the risk of collision.

The vertical separation rule of thumb is lights will be seen as vertically separated at a distance of one mile for every meter of vertical separation. Placing the stern light 25 feet (8 meters) above the side lights will be seen as a white light elevated above the side lights at 8 miles (the entire range at which it can be seen at all). I can't imagine how anyone who knows the ColRegs light configurations would not interpret that light as a motor vessel steaming light on a dark night when your sails or hull cannot be seen.

Just because the ColRegs don't prohibit the configuration, that doesn't make it advisable. It will cause confusion and increase the risk of collision. Common sense dictates that your side lights and stern light should have no substantial vertical separation.
 
#10 ·
Might it not be misinterpreted as a steaming (masthead) light, especially if it is well above the side lights? If it was so confused, it would appear that yours is a powered vessel underway in the direction opposite of its actual travel.

All
No one can tell if it's mast hight or not... Because lights are on at night and the mast is dark.
Plus, if you can see the port/starboard light you cant see the stern light....

If I was Mr Col Reg I would tell all you minions that sailing boats need a better lighting system because red/green can't be seen when they're at deck level. And males have a high % of night colour blindness... (that's why I went with my last girlfriend)

:grin
 
#12 ·
No! You are defiantly confusing this with red above red and white. What *every* proper sailor knows is:

Vessels Restricted in Their Ability to Maneuver
Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver > 50m in length or < 50, in length showing the optional second masthead light.
aft forward starboard
Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver > 50m in length or < 50, in length showing the optional second masthead light. Lights viewed from behind Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver > 50m in length or < 50, in length showing the optional second masthead light. Lights viewed from dead ahead Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver > 50m in length or < 50, in length showing the optional second masthead light. Lights viewed from the starboard side
Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver > 50m in length or < 50, in length showing the optional second masthead light.
see Rule #27
Since being restricted in their ability to maneuver is always "due to the nature of her work" many vessels will also display other lights. However, if the lights are not shown (with the exception of mineclearence) the vessel is not afforded any special consideration.
The specific location of the Red, White, Red lights is flexible within the provision of the rule
Vessel Restricted in Her Ability To Maneuver Towing < 50m in length with tow < 200m

Illustrated Navigation Lights

:devil
 
#15 · (Edited)
> No! You are defiantly confusing this with red above red and white.

Ummm. "Restricted in Their Ability to Maneuver" is red-over-white-over-red. Not red above red and white. The mnemonic we were taught in school was: "Restricted With Reason." See ColRegs Rule 27.

I'm not sure what you believe I am mistaking. Are you referring to my red-over-green configuration? Or do you believe a single white light high above the water doesn't usually denote the (forward facing) masthead light on a motor vessel? The masthead light is supposed to be visible for a greater distance than the side lights, so one can't expect to see a sidelight at a distance.

The illustration I attached was straight out of the Navigation Rules. See Rule 25(c). Do you have a copy on board? Here's a copy: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf. If your boat is larger than 12 meters, you are supposed to have copy on board at all times.

The link you included: "Illustrated Navigation Lights," is bogus. It omits the light configuration allowed by Rule 25(c).

Every Mariner who's attended training knows: "Red-over-green -- sailing machine." I'm hesitant to say every sailor knows that (sadly)... As a sailor, if i didn't know that, I should hand in my master mariner credential.
 
#18 ·
Last time we sailed at night I had to send a crew member up the mast to refill the red kerosene lamp, we were only displaying a green light and we did not want to confuse other boaters in the area that might know the red over green rule.

I know the lighting rules for sailing and when under power. but what are the lighting rules for a boat that is sailing up on foils going 50 kts. Times have changed
 
#19 ·
The only time the lights matter, is when you can't actually see the boat. Therefore, there is no way to know if the light is at deck level or not. Deck level varies between 2 feet and 100ft, depending on vessel. Not to mention, tri-color lights sit atop masts that can push 80ft before the boat's LOA makes them impermissible. Ultimately, there is simply no height restriction, so any skipper inferring data from height is explicitly wrong.

In the end, using light identification alone is a pretty risky way to navigate around a moving vessel at night. This antiquated approach was better than running dark at the time, but it's primitive. Lights burn out. Light are obscured by waves or patchy fog. There are so many light configurations, no one can recall them all from memory.

If I see any lights, of any kind, I immediately identify the vessel on radar and map it's movement. I don't give a damn what lights I see. AIS is even better technology, just not fully adopted.

Honestly, no boat should be permitted to operate at night, outside a lit harbor, without some active, modern form of collision avoidance, other than deck lighting. Lights are like using leaches to cure heart disease.
 
#20 ·
The only time the lights matter, is when you can't actually see the boat. Therefore, there is no way to know if the light is at deck level or not. Deck level varies between 2 feet and 100ft, depending on vessel. Not to mention, tri-color lights sit atop masts that can push 80ft before the boat's LOA makes them impermissible. Ultimately, there is simply no height restriction, so any skipper inferring data from height is explicitly wrong.

In the end, using light identification alone is a pretty risky way to navigate around a moving vessel at night. This antiquated approach was better than running dark at the time, but it's primitive. Lights burn out. Light are obscured by waves or patchy fog. There are so many light configurations, no one can recall them all from memory.

If I see any lights, of any kind, I immediately identify the vessel on radar and map it's movement. I don't give a damn what lights I see. AIS is even better technology, just not fully adopted.

Honestly, no boat should be permitted to operate at night, outside a lit harbor, without some active, modern form of collision avoidance, other than deck lighting. Lights are like using leaches to cure heart disease.
This really isn't a thread about wether or not lights should be used, whether they are antiquated, whether there are better methods of identification.
The rules are written in the most common denomination which every vessel should us from a dinghy to and aircraft carrier. The rules were made to make things safe. Because of that they assume all vessels follow them.

You can turn the original OP discussion into a drift on how/ whether vessels should be required to use them, but currently it is the law.

The OP asked about stern positioning. The rules are stated about stern lights.

If you think that placing them on top of a mast will serve to confuse ANY vessel ( dinghy or sir craft carrier) then it would not be a place to put it. If you think it wouldn't be seen by all boats, then it isn't the place for it.

On Haleakula the davits with dinghy impeded the original lights from being seen, therefore we had to move it. The best placement for us was the radar pole where it was seen by ALL vessels. There is no ambiguity when approaching Haleakula from beside/ behind that we have a stern light visible.

Not knowing whether you already have a masthead light on the main I can not give you better info. The only thing is don't confuse anyone.

https://www.boat-ed.com/pennsylvani...verview-and-Powered-Vessels/101039_101039152/
 
#21 ·
My dinghy blocks my stern light. For the rare occasion that I'm out at night or in restricted visibility, I bought a Navisafe rail mount for my bimini top and put my Navisafe dinghy tri color bow light in it. There are settings to illuminate the rear white light only as stern light (or red/green only as bow light). Then I stick black duct tape over the hardwired stern light.
 
#25 ·
My original stern light has been mounted on the stern railing, but with the massive davits and dinghy hanged I had to install a secondary to the radar/antennas/flood lights etc. arches above the davits at a height of approx 5’ above deck. This serves well the purpose.
A masthead light may confuse others as it may be considered as anchoring light of simply too high to be noticed at a close distance.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I bitterly complained by VHF to a ship about his gross unseamanlike navigation lights!

I counted his white lights: 842!

Red lights: 27 but there could have been more!

Green lights à plenty!

And on deck Micky Mouse on a huge TV screen!

Despicable!! :|

I stood on my Aft deck with my USCG Approved 2 NM LEDs and waved ColRegs at him.

That taught him a lesson.
 
#27 ·
A stern light may easily be distinguished from a steaming light by the lack of corresponding red and green lights. When at sea, a high white stern light is useful as being seen a a greater distance. In a close quarters harbor situation, a light far above the water may not be seen by small boats such as runabouts under power. A low light would better serve the purpose here. Where do you mostly sail at night? We have a switchable mutually exclusive white light set. Stern and low for sailing and high all around white for motor sailing. The bow lights are fixed in either case. You could wire something similar for your stern only lights if you sail in multiple environments.
 
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