NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts - Page 8 - SailNet Community
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post #71 of 95 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
No need to sit out and out wait the fog. Turn your radar on. Mine seems to work well in low visibility as well as being superimposed on MFD with the AIS
Not recommended when traversing the Golden Gate Channel during ebb tide. You'll want to maintain visual separation from the logs and pilings floating out of the Bay.
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

[[[vEdited by Mod]]]

The OP thread was talking about navigation and charts and reprints.

It drifted a little to where you took it to sitting put in an ebb tide entering San Francisco Bay because of logs and pilings. What does that have to do with navigational charts

The statement makes no sense anyway. Many of us sail travel in currents where there may be logs and floating pilings, it doesn’t have to be SF Bay. Most of the logs, deadheads are underwater and you wouldn’t spot them. It doesn’t prevent us from sailing.

Let’s try and stay at least close to an OP sense of the thread. Let’s also try think about the statements we make.
I’m sure the sailors in SF Bay aren’t hanging out every foggy ebb tide. They be out there hanging out a lot as FOG is SF middle name
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 11-21-2019 at 04:48 AM.
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post #73 of 95 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Sorry to offend the Thread Police. I will endeavor to not troll you by calling your posts "nonsense."

I've made about 50 passages through "the gate" and seen things floating there that I'm glad I could see and avoid. I saw what looked like a whole tree once. None of those objects would appear on radar. Logs don't generally have AIS. Maybe you should listen to channel 16 in the bay more frequently for all the "floating object" reports.

Two rivers empty into the bay, and when the bay drains tremendous amounts of water at ebb through that narrow channel, you'll see all sorts of things.

With equal respect....

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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

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Sorry to offend the Thread Police. I will endeavor to not troll you by calling your posts "nonsense."

Thank you.

À note to everyone: the newer forum rules bans Trolling.

Like, lump it, or see your posts disappear, voilà.




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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Isn’t it possible the ENC technology development has been slowed by diversion of resources to raster?

In the age of artificial intelligence, there is no conceivable reason why we should need human cartographers choosing what to put on a chart. ENC just isn’t fully developed and that’s where we should focus our resources IMO.
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post #76 of 95 Old 11-21-2019
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

The government isn't really taking raster charts away. Most people stopped using raster charts because better technology came along.

I say file those old raster charts where they belong, right next to the Loran C and the DECCA navigator.

If you want basic paper charts as a back up. Make your own from the ENC files. If for whatever reason you can't or don't want to make your own, there are 3rd party charts that are in many ways more yachting freindly than the big old NOAA charts.
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Last edited by Arcb; 11-21-2019 at 09:15 AM.
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

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Exactly a Katherine Hepburn kind of thing:
Mid-Atlantic accent





(Buckley was a sailor, so this is totally on topic)
Kate Hepburn had a family summer house in Old Saybrook, Conn., on Long Island Sound. I have sailed past it several times. So, again, completely on topic.
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Btw, I've never bought a chart from NOAA. All of the charts I have on my boat are from Maptech. If I'm understanding things correctly, we'll still be able to buy the same quality charts from them and others that we do now. Won't Maptech still be able to "curate" the up-to-date NOAA data and offer their products for sale as they do now? In short, what are the advantages to buying a map from NOAA over from a third party vendor like Maptech?
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

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Btw, I've never bought a chart from NOAA. All of the charts I have on my boat are from Maptech. If I'm understanding things correctly, we'll still be able to buy the same quality charts from them and others that we do now. Won't Maptech still be able to "curate" the up-to-date NOAA data and offer their products for sale as they do now? In short, what are the advantages to buying a map from NOAA over from a third party vendor like Maptech?
My understanding is that Maptech (et al) get the data from NOAA. This is where the skilled cartographers are, Maptech only packages and sells it.

I agree with Outbound, I have some qualifications but cartography is not one of them. This is a highly skilled profession. The idea that AI is going to do this is, ehm, completely unrealistic. If you understand how modern AI works, how the networks are trained and the amount of data you need for that, you know what I mean.

Looks like a cost-cutting idea by some pinhead. How many cartographers can you pay for one oil tanker on the rocks?
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Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

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Looks like a cost-cutting idea by some pinhead. How many cartographers can you pay for one oil tanker on the rocks?
I don't think we want to go back to the days of oil tankers position fixing with horizontal sextant angles and running fixes.

Ships are using modern navigation techniques. An old school chartfolio for an oil tanker might cost 10's of thousands of dollars and take up an entire room for storage and it would take a second mate working full time to keep them up to date. I don't think its oil tankers or their owners pushing to save old paper chart formats. I suspect its mostly just yachtsmen.

Have a freind who is a coastal pilot, big ships. He and all his colleagues have been issued ipads for their charting needs. They aren't carrying around back packs full of paper charts.

Last edited by Arcb; 11-21-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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