NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts - SailNet Community
 67Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TakeFive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 5,007
Thanks: 24
Thanked 144 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Quote:
NOAA is initiating a five-year process to end all traditional paper nautical chart production and is seeking the public’s feedback via a Federal Register Notice published on November 15, 2019.

Chart users, companies that provide products and services based on NOAA raster and electronic navigational chart (NOAA ENC®) products, and other stakeholders can help shape the manner and timing in which the product sunsetting process will proceed. Comments may be submitted through NOAA’s online ASSIST feedback tool.

For nearly 200 years, NOAA’s Office of Coast Survey has produced traditional paper nautical chart products. Originally, this took the singular form of hard copy paper charts, today, there are several raster digital chart formats available to download or print through a NOAA certified agent.

Similar to the transition from road atlases to GPS navigation systems that we have witnessed in this digital era, we are also seeing the increased reliance on NOAA electronic navigational charts (ENC) as the primary navigational product and the decreased use of traditional raster chart products. Since 2008, ENC sales have increased by 425 percent, while sales of paper charts have dropped by half...
See link for full article: https://www.passagemaker.com/trawler...l-paper-charts
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
USCG Certified Captain, OUPV and 50 Ton Master
ASA Certified 101/103/104/105/106



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2001 Catalina 34MkII Tall Rig Wing Keel Breakin' Away, Universal Diesel M35B, Mantus 35 lb. anchor, sailing out of Rock Hall Landing Marina
TakeFive is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
TakeFive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Swarthmore, PA
Posts: 5,007
Thanks: 24
Thanked 144 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

FWIW, I haven't used a paper chart in 10 years, aside from ASA 105,106, and OUPV/Master training. I have backup charts onboard, but I have so much redundancy in my electronic systems that I haven't ever had to pull them out.

However, I am not happy about this. My primary chart plotter program, OpenCPN running on one of three Windows tablets, all of which can be mounted at my helm, under the dodger, down below, or wherever a suction cup can attach, has a full database of NOAA RNC and ENC charts. Although I don't get out paper charts, I use the RNC charts (which are just electronic versions of the printed charts) frequently when planning routes.

ENC charts are very powerful, because you can clutter up your screen with as much or as little detail as you want. And therein lies the problem. They are dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know which details are important, and adopting settings that leave out certain details can be catastrophic. I've learned a lot about how to adjust the level of detail, but I know enough not to fully trust myself to make these judgments. That's when I pull up the RNC layer so I can see the details that a professional cartographer believes are important. Under NOAA's proposal, that value-added option will go away.

They describe a process where the user can select the details he wants and print out a paper chart or a PDF. But this keeps 100% of the judgment in the hands the user, and eliminates the expertise of the professional cartographer. So it's no better than just using the ENC charts on a chartplotter. And also a PDF will not be calibrated for use in chartplotter software.

The appropriate middle ground, as I see it, would be for NOAA to have their professional cartographers curate some ENC files with the appropriate level of detail and generate calibrated .KAP and .BSB files that can be opened with software in the same way that RNC files are currently opened. Then mariners will have the option of tweaking their own ENC displays as they wish, but also referring to charts that have been properly curated by professional cartographers.
outbound, PhilCarlson and PaulBKal like this.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
USCG Certified Captain, OUPV and 50 Ton Master
ASA Certified 101/103/104/105/106



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2001 Catalina 34MkII Tall Rig Wing Keel Breakin' Away, Universal Diesel M35B, Mantus 35 lb. anchor, sailing out of Rock Hall Landing Marina

Last edited by TakeFive; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:39 AM.
TakeFive is offline  
post #3 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,574
Thanks: 68
Thanked 300 Times in 272 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Get rid of the old junk!

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
 
post #4 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 78
Thanks: 16
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 1
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/cust...ervice/assist/

The link above connects you to ASSIST--the place where you can leave your comments about the proposed change. Kind of a weird looking interface for submitting comments.

Additional info at: https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/publ...ter-sunset.pdf

If it's important to you, I recommend that you comment.
mbianka likes this.
cherylchecheryl is offline  
post #5 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
hpeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Onboard
Posts: 1,312
Thanks: 15
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Apparently it’s not JUST paper charts but ALL RASTER charts. HUGE mistake.

Quote:
describes NOAA's decision to sunset – that is, gradually and completely end – production of the traditional NOAA paper2 nautical charts and related raster products by January 2025
PaulBKal likes this.

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter
hpeer is online now  
post #6 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast U.S
Posts: 2,175
Thanks: 5
Thanked 78 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

Sounds like NOAA is just getting out of the printing business. That is they are not going to print charts on paper and stockpile them until they go out of date and have not sold them. Probably a good thing for a number of reasons.

I like to have some paper charts with me. Paper always works. But, when I need to update I always get a POD (Print on Demand) one which has the latest updates. Which is what this seems to be about. It also looks like we will be able to print our own custom charts or have a print shop do it if you want a large sheet. Less out of date paper charts being stored by the government and more up to date charts sounds like a good thing to me.
RegisteredUser likes this.

Mike
Currently: Heading to warm waters over the winter on a variety of boats.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mbianka is online now  
post #7 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 11
Thanks: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

I think there are two issues, of reliability and journey planning to be considered here.

I can’t get over the number of little glitches there are with computers and electronic devices that require them to be restarted or some such, sometimes at a critical time. Even in an office environment, let alone a boat, this happens.

It happened to me quite recently when navigating a challenging passage with several turns when suddenly all the boat’s electrics, without warning, faded and turned themselves off and then miraculously restarted 15 or 20 seconds later. The navigation computer and the chart plotter took considerably longer to come back up after going into low power mode (I thought they had internal batteries for this purpose) but fortunately I had an old guy on board who reached for the chart we had been looking at for our trip planning purposes an hour earlier and we were able to carry on.

Several thousand spent on marine electricians and electronics whizzes has got us no closer to identifying the source of the temporary shutdown in this half million dollar boat.

For the government, of all people, charged with marine safety, to take away the most basic instrument of navigation in a lemming like headlong rush toward a far less reliable (albeit highly capable) is just appalling. Double the prices of them if you must, but don’t remove them all together.

As to trip planning, nothing makes it easier than a large paper chart/s spread on a table so you can look at the whole journey in detail without easily missing anything. I think the guys on Team Vesta might strongly agree with this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
olson34 likes this.
PaulBKal is offline  
post #8 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 3,785
Thanks: 3
Thanked 139 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

If there is a real need private biz will be there to supply.
Just how it is.
Anything to lean it down...is worth a good look.
I think smart people could cut this thing in half in less than 10 years or so...with few real probs.

Yeah, off sub a bit, but...
RegisteredUser is online now  
post #9 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
hpeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Onboard
Posts: 1,312
Thanks: 15
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

I just tried to leave a comment on that stupid ASSIST site using my iPhone. NOT iPhone friendly, NOT a good sign about their capabilities. Anyway it seems the question (comment?) box is limited to 3,000 characters. I tried to attach a file but got booted off the site.

I’ll try again tomorrow, I’ve got to get back to fixing my MFD. irony!

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter
hpeer is online now  
post #10 of 95 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,785
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: NOAA Seeks Comment on Ending ALL 'Traditional' Paper Charts

People are not using them much anymore. Of course if your electronics go down... you are out of luck. Not many sailors can do dead reckoning anymore even as a back up. Multiple plotters... like cell phones and tablets as back ups may become the go to back up out of necessity.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome