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Charts and Chartplotters

9K views 71 replies 16 participants last post by  SanderO 
#1 ·
I have two forms of chartplotting navigation. One is a very old, rugged, and reliable Garmin 376C but there are no longer recent charts available and it's not compatible with NOAA Raster or Vector. So, a perfectly good piece of hardware is good for the trash bin because it has been thrown under the bus by the company that made it....what else is new? The other is a Toughbook CF31 and a couple of different programs (Sailcruiser and Open CPN). Along with NOAA charts, both of these programs work very well. I am wondering if there are any systems such as Navionics which might be better alternatives as the backup nav system. I would not buy another Garmin because of the proprietary restrictions and Garmin map only approach. We only do USA sailing now so NOAA charts are really all we need. Would like to have the most accurate system on board whether it be Windows, Android or other. Thoughts?
 
#3 ·
One is a very old, rugged, and reliable Garmin 376C but there are no longer recent charts available and it's not compatible with NOAA Raster or Vector.
Yep, my Garmin 76cx has died and I wont replace it with a Garmin for the same reasons as you... their proprienty charts BS.

[Your Toughbook CF31 must be decades old? Whats it running Win 3.1? LOL. Time to upgrade that too, eh?]

All charts except NOAA are crazy expensive.

I love my OpenCpn on a laptop because I love the freedom, speed and accuracy of a mouse.

I have a trans Atlantic passage next year and am starting to think about the upgrading of redundancy. Im kinda thinking about a twin laptop, wireless (wifi) system linking everything. (Yes, I would buy a second wifi router for redundency).

Main reasons are that a new small fast laptop is just a few hundred dollars (OK about $300 to $400). Beware the very cheapest new laptops dont have USB connections nor number pads, so you cant use them with a wired mouse.

I find the iPad and smartphone apps too small or too paired down to use useful. but remember, I do lang range cruising and need different things than coastal.

Anyway, buying 2 laptops that are connected, but independent may be the way I go.

Mark
 
#10 ·
You did not understand...

my Laptop has no GPS.... it needs an external one to use as a plotter.

Which external GPS antenna/receiver do people use? What the options? The differences and the costs? Which port do they use?
 
#9 ·
The CF31 is actually a fairly new Toughbook. It's running Win10 with no problems. It also runs my decade old Sailcruiser 3 program which has all the whistles and bells. I originally had a CF29 which ran XP but XP has become too outdated to use for more than a few tasks. Security is non-existent. Sailcruiser will run my old C-Map charts which have all the Caribbean charts as well as NOAA charts. The 31 also has a great sunlight readable display, unlike almost any of the android devices or standard computers. It's also virtually indestructible. I tried a cf52 which quickly succumbed to a wave over the side:) The two problems with any computer are size and mounting in a good visible location and power consumption. I have only 200w of solar (above the alternator when motoring) which runs refrig, radar, etc. so there's not much power to spare. Keeping computers charged is an issue.
 
#11 ·
I have a Windows XP laptop running Polar Navy's PolarView NS with a BU-353 USB receiver. Unfortunately, PolarView has been discontinued, and my NOAA chart updates (raster and vector) for PolarView will end in June 2020. I have tried OpenCPN, SeaClear, and others, but PolarView was FAR easier to use. I hope to figure out a work around for chart updates.

Like others, I refuse to purchase a Garmin since my GPSmap 478 has been relegated to a paper weight by Garmin.

I have a Raymarine eS78 at the helm (tactical), and use the Windows laptop at the navigation station for route planning (strategic).
 
#12 ·
I have a Windows XP laptop running Polar Navy's PolarView NS with a BU-353 USB receiver. Unfortunately, PolarView has been discontinued, and my NOAA chart updates (raster and vector) for PolarView will end in June 2020. I have tried OpenCPN, SeaClear, and others, but PolarView was FAR easier to use. I hope to figure out a work around for chart updates.

Like others, I refuse to purchase a Garmin since my GPSmap 478 has been relegated to a paper weight by Garmin.

I have a Raymarine eS78 at the helm (tactical), and use the Windows laptop at the navigation station for route planning (strategic).
I also tried and subscribed to Polar View. I found it slow, at least on my gear, and very basic. Open CPN has worked much better in its latest iterations. When I first tried it a few years ago on XP machines, it repeatedly crashed but this seems to have been fixed. Sailcruiser by Navsim also discontinued its product although I was recently able to still contact very capable tech people there and get updates and access codes to change computers. Sailcruiser has all the right stuff for sailing including use of polars. It has more than I'll ever utilize. Am sad that this sailing-specific program has been discontinued.
 
#13 ·
Hey,

I don't understand the Garmin hate. Garmin owns Navionics, and I don't think that (modern) Garmin gear requires a proprietary chart. I may be wrong because my only garmin GPS is a GPSMAP 78, but I run Navionics on it.

Just because you can't get new charts doesn't seem like a good reason to stop using a functional plotter. How often do charts change? How often do you actually update the charts (and your paper charts)?

I use Navionics on my Iphone, Ipad, and laptop (laptop used for planning purposes only, not for actual navigation) and I love it. My Garmin is stand alone (I use on other people's boats) so I don't need to share routes, tracks, etc. with other gear like on my own boat. There have been a number of review of Navionics on this site recently. I'm sure you can find them.

My last comment on old gear. How long do you expect old gear to be used and supported? Five years, 10 year, 20 years? IMHO if you get 10 years from electronic gear then that's pretty good.

Barry
 
#15 ·
Hey,

I don't understand the Garmin hate. Garmin owns Navionics, and I don't think that (modern) Garmin gear requires a proprietary chart. I may be wrong because my only garmin GPS is a GPSMAP 78, but I run Navionics on it.

Just because you can't get new charts doesn't seem like a good reason to stop using a functional plotter. How often do charts change? How often do you actually update the charts (and your paper charts)?

I use Navionics on my Iphone, Ipad, and laptop (laptop used for planning purposes only, not for actual navigation) and I love it. My Garmin is stand alone (I use on other people's boats) so I don't need to share routes, tracks, etc. with other gear like on my own boat. There have been a number of review of Navionics on this site recently. I'm sure you can find them.

My last comment on old gear. How long do you expect old gear to be used and supported? Five years, 10 year, 20 years? IMHO if you get 10 years from electronic gear then that's pretty good.

Barry
Totally agree Barry,
 
#16 ·
Just curious:
How do you get weather? We use satphone email, Sailmail via 802 SSB/ pacnor, voice on SSB
But also pay attention to radar. Usually leave radar unfiltered so rain shows up early.
How many crew do you have? Are they good or just sit with earplugs in and tunes going as they look at their phone/pad? We like having Radar/AIS on all screens and active alarm zones.
Do you hand steer or use a AP or vane? It’s no issue in the middle of the passage but usually fix with a pin so windvane is off and use the AP for the first day and last day of passage.
Charts usually aren’t the issue mid ocean but only at the hard edges. Hand steering gets old fast even with a big crew.
 
#22 ·
Just curious:
How do you get weather? We use satphone email, Sailmail via 802 SSB/ pacnor, voice on SSB
But also pay attention to radar. Usually leave radar unfiltered so rain shows up early.
How many crew do you have? Are they good or just sit with earplugs in and tunes going as they look at their phone/pad? We like having Radar/AIS on all screens and active alarm zones.
Do you hand steer or use a AP or vane? It's no issue in the middle of the passage but usually fix with a pin so windvane is off and use the AP for the first day and last day of passage.
Charts usually aren't the issue mid ocean but only at the hard edges. Hand steering gets old fast even with a big crew.
Have not been offshore much in the last few years, so have not needed it but I get NOAA Weatherfax over SSB/Pactor/Computer. It's a bit cumbersome but has worked quite well.
 
#17 ·
check out Coastal Explorer for a windows system. Its really a great tool for planning and cruising, very easy to use yet extremely rich. One license covers 3 systems so you can have it at home and on the boat surface pro. It is windows only. NOAA charts are free. Couple it with an AIS device like vesper marine 8000 (which you should have anyways for safety) and you've got GPS over nema, usb, or wifi. Our boat is well equipped with simrad (with wifi) so we currently use coastal explorer for planning and backup but we used to use it exclusively for coastal sailing. worked fine for coastal but wanted more for offshore. it does cost a few $hundred but in my opinion well worth it.
 
#23 ·
check out Coastal Explorer for a windows system.
$399! :eek:

Polar Navy's PolarView NS was $30 for 5 (perpetual) licenses when it came out. Then it jumped to $50 for 5 licenses. Last June I paid $70 for 1 (perpetual) license which included a $20/year chart update subscription.
 
#18 ·
OK, were I to go the tablet route, how would I mount it at the helm (in a pod?), and be able to alter screens and views as I do on my MFD, use the touch screen, have a power cord running to it, and have it waterproof enough to take water (not spray) on it?
Nothing anyone has said here addresses these factors.
As for Garmin, how often do any of you, other than Mark, travel far enough that you would require more than a few of Garmin's proprietary charts chips? I use one for Bermuda, one for the eastern Caribbean and one for the western Caribbean. Big deal; 3 chips! Even if one was sailing from the PNW to New England, only 4 or maybe 5 chips would be necessary, considering all US waters (even Ak & Hawaii) are preloaded into all Garmin chartplotters.
That certainly wouldn't (hasn't!) put me off buying a Garmin GPS chartplotter that has given me excellent, reliable and consistently accurate service for over 14 years now, with the last 12 sitting in a pod 24/7/365 at the pedestal, exposed to rain, sun and humidity. It is handy to the helm, easily reached to change screens, view the radar, weather (if in range of SiriusXM Marine Weather), always plugged in and never needs charging, easily read in daylight or dark, 100% waterproof.
And, if one is stuck on the helm for an extended time steering through some heavy weather near shore, what would you folks touting the computer/tablet route use for navigation once your battery has worn down, given that the computer/tablet you are using has survived the several waves that most likely have engulfed the cockpit in those conditions?
 
#21 ·
Gotta laugh...I had a Toughbook cf52 that did not make it 100 miles last year. A wave in Abelmarle Sound managed to slosh over the windward rail and immediately shorted the thing out. The CF52 is billed as "semi rugged:) The fully rugged Toughbooks are much more able to survive a boat but I agree, none of them are nearly as good as a good chartplotter and they are power hogs.
 
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#24 ·
For inshore and coastal sailing I’ve found Navionics on the phone in a holder at the helm and OpenCpn on the laptop down below is all that’s needed. Separate depth instrument at the helm station.

Simple, inexpensive, have all the info I need.
 
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#25 ·
For inshore and coastal sailing I've found Navionics on the phone in a holder at the helm and OpenCpn on the laptop down below is all that's needed. Separate depth instrument at the helm station.

Simple, inexpensive, have all the info I need.
No Radar or AIS?
 
#27 ·
Did I respond to this thread? If I did... sorry to do it again.

Our Ray C80 is below decks and it displays radar and AIS etc. Not a great location for single and shorthanded sailing. I have an ancient Standard CP170 down below which I don't bother to turn on... waste amps

We have 7 cockpit dash displays...

Fluxgate compass w/GPS data (XTE, CTW....) connected to C80 (NMEA 183)
Depth
GPS data - XTE, SOG, COG, DTW, CTW, TTG ...+ connected to C80 (NMEA 183)
Boat Speed (#.##)
Race Repeater - VMG, true wind speed, true wind angle ...+
Analog Apparent wind dial
Apparent wind speed.

I have a B&G Zeus T7 under dodger winch mounted

If I have the smartphone in the cockpit... it sits on the coach roof (charging) I may run navionics for a second "chart view"

I do not helm the boat manually except to and from a mooring or to drop the anchor... and on and off the fuel or town dock. All other steering is done by an AP with its control head forward in the cockpit and I set the course with a rotary dial.

++++

N2K Upgrade:

T7 moves down below.
New Zeus3-9 assumes the winch mount location on network
4 dash mounted Triton 2
Vesper AIS B
New masthead AWI
New radar scanner
New External GPS antenna
existing speed, depth, temp transducer

Upgrade will be to N2k
 
#34 · (Edited)
I see that the LATEST version of OpenCPN is 5.0 - released in March 2019. The last that I tried it was 4.xxx, and it was clunky as hell.
This is implicitly acknowledged on the OpenCPN website; "Important note for OpenCPN 4.0 (and earlier) users. Upgrade to the latest version of OpenCPN. Really. It is much better and more stable than the version you are running now. We will not post any more updates to the older version plugins available here, ever."

I'll give it another shot based on the newer version and @smurphny 's recommendation.
 
#38 ·
Just to be clear, we have a chartplotter at the helm. An intentional decision we have made twice during refits when tablets were options. Our tablets and phones are used for incidental and supplemental navigational things, so I'm not advocating for portables, and when given the choice, I twice went with fixed plotters. I do, however, fully understand and appreciate the arguments for those that do use them as primary plotters.

To put the radar thing in perspective, having radar at the helm is a fairly recent thing. In the not so long ago, almost all boats had them below for practical reasons unrelated to navigation.

For MOST of the time radar is used, it is not needed at the helm because it is not used for immediate in-the-present navigation. It is used to find and track ships, find squalls, find inlets or see how far charts are off, etc. These functions are occasional glances over time, or notice once and adjust sort of things.

Your example is one where it would be used in an immediate way, and most convenient at the helm. In contrast, if it was a separate unit from the plotter, it could be below and ARPA would automatically be painting those boats and sending the information up to the plotter at the helm.

Again, I prefer it up at the helm, and because radar is integrated with the plotter, that is where it is located. I was just saying that if I was honest with myself about this preference, I could understand it isn't as critical as having, say, the autopilot control at the helm. If it was a standalone radar, even we would have challenges mounting it at the helm in addition to the plotter and other instruments.

A second chartplotter is one way to have navigation data away from the helm, but it isn't the most versatile and convenient way. My phone goes to bed with me in whichever cabin I decide to sleep in (yes, this does change underway depending on conditions). My tablet is usually providing supplemental navigational information at the helm - for example, I really like having AIS on the tablet with all the crossing situations, ship lists and info, etc. This leaves the plotter display clean in terms of not needing to have crossing lines, names, speeds and course, etc displayed on it. Same thing with Active Captain when we use it - that really makes a holy mess on the plotter display, but the tablet can be dedicated to it for that period of time. I will often have the tablet and plotter showing the same charts at different scales in certain situations. When I want full-screen radar on the plotter, it is nice to have a chart showing on the tablet.

Otherwise, the tablet can be used for navigation below anywhere on the boat I choose to be. Since it can control the plotter itself, I can actually go inside and make route changes or other such where it is more comfortable, and make them happen out on the plotter from there. I can fill in the logbook using it at the table, do course and distance estimations there, and many other things.

And all of the portable data is coming free of wires off wifi.

I don't know about the cost effectiveness. My tablet is 7yrs old and cost $550. It was one of the more expensive ones) It would depend on the exact plotter one compares with, but likely a plotter would cost a minimum of twice as much. At the end of 14-18yrs (two tablets worth), the plotter would likely be of limited use, so the costs are the same. For our current plotter, we would have to go through many, many tablets for them not to cost less.

Before anyone gets too excited about my views on tablets for navigation, please reread my first paragraph.

Mark
 
#39 ·
It was an aside. Have one mail, saimail on the iPads as well as the laptops. RM does have a weather product but don’t use it. Use a weather router so beyond gribs and the 500mb like voice and email. Find it helpful to avoid the snot as well as hunt for favorable winds/currents.
RM (As does everyone else) has reasonable WiFi so theoretically could helm from the dinghy with the lifeproofed iPad and/or the wireless remote.
Excuse my ignorance is there any tablet that could run the boat without a MFD already in place?
Understand there are still independent APs but not aware of any that will go to a waypoint nor steer a wind angle. Are there any that allow alarm zones? Even when under vane do like AIS and radar. Know if the bearing is changing things are usually ok but the VLCC and even the cruise ships put a big hole in the water so knowing closest distance is most helpful to me. Coastal find real-time depth very valuable. Even with crowd sourcing and updating via internet find both places with sandy bottoms, recent storms or not frequently visited can lead to surprises.
So you have a weather hardened tablet, independent depth, AWA/AWS, radar and AIS. I’m a idiot but would have trouble processing. Sure I have depth running on a small screen at the companionway when in soundings and the other stuff can be projected on the various small screens as well but when behind the wheel it’s nice to look one place and see all you need.
I’m still waiting for the heads up display on wearable glasses controlled by voice +/or taps on the stems. The brain down below out of weather and damp. Have several so some could be worn by crew and some charging. Maybe a charge socket and wire if no spares easily at hand. Until then feel stuck running both tablets and MFDs.
 
#40 · (Edited)
It was an aside. Have one mail, saimail on the iPads as well as the laptops. RM does have a weather product but don't use it. Use a weather router so beyond gribs and the 500mb like voice and email. Find it helpful to avoid the snot as well as hunt for favorable winds/currents.
RM (As does everyone else) has reasonable WiFi so theoretically could helm from the dinghy with the lifeproofed iPad and/or the wireless remote.
Excuse my ignorance is there any tablet that could run the boat without a MFD already in place?
Understand there are still independent APs but not aware of any that will go to a waypoint nor steer a wind angle. Are there any that allow alarm zones? Even when under vane do like AIS and radar. Know if the bearing is changing things are usually ok but the VLCC and even the cruise ships put a big hole in the water so knowing closest distance is most helpful to me. Coastal find real-time depth very valuable. Even with crowd sourcing and updating via internet find both places with sandy bottoms, recent storms or not frequently visited can lead to surprises.
So you have a weather hardened tablet, independent depth, AWA/AWS, radar and AIS. I'm a idiot but would have trouble processing. Sure I have depth running on a small screen at the companionway when in soundings and the other stuff can be projected on the various small screens as well but when behind the wheel it's nice to look one place and see all you need.
I'm still waiting for the heads up display on wearable glasses controlled by voice +/or taps on the stems. The brain down below out of weather and damp. Have several so some could be worn by crew and some charging. Maybe a charge socket and wire if no spares easily at hand. Until then feel stuck running both tablets and MFDs.
I think you were addressing me, and there is a lot here to decompress, and I don't understand some of what you ask, but I'll try and answer some of it.

Is there any tablet that can run the boat without an MFD? I'm not sure what you mean by "running the boat".

There aren't any tablet apps that will operate commercial autopilots directly, although I think the open source PyPilot can be controlled by a tablet. The commercial manufacturers seem to have made a deliberate decision to not allow control of AP's even from their own apps. Strangely, most of them make wireless remotes that can control the AP, but still don't allow apps to do so. Radar is also a weak point with apps, although OpenCPN has radar drivers for Navico and Garmin (for the computer application - I'm not sure about the tablet app).

Otherwise, tablet apps can do a lot.

Understand there are still independent APs but not aware of any that will go to a waypoint nor steer a wind angle.

This might be semantics. ALL AP's are independent. They only become "dependent" when they are connected by a communication cable, but they don't become slaves when they are. If I pulled the communication plug from ours, it would operate as before, only it would not have wind or waypoint data. It would still be connected to its rudder reference, compass, and control head. One could choose to wire those units on the shared main communication bus, but it would be trivial to connect them directly to the AP if required. However, to get waypoint and wind data, that information needs to be exposed to the AP. It has always been this way, and is a logical constraint, unless the AP becomes the plotter and wind instrument also.

Our AP alarms for many things, including shallow depth, slow speed, and others. Way more things than I like it alerting me to (voltage, holding tank level, high GPS HDOP, etc - just kidding about the holding tank), so we have almost all of them turned off. The tablet can also alert to AIS targets based on criteria, and many other things. Not sure why one would want their AP doing all that.

So you have a weather hardened tablet, independent depth, AWA/AWS, radar and AIS. I'm a idiot but would have trouble processing. Sure I have depth running on a small screen at the companionway when in soundings and the other stuff can be projected on the various small screens as well but when behind the wheel it's nice to look one place and see all you need.

I might not understand this one. All transducer data on N2K are independent. Depth, wind, speed, etc all just throw their data on the bus for anything that wants to use it. Some tablet apps do a very good job of integrating these data so they exist in a holistic view. More than just a bunch of small data boxes.

For example, some present AWA and TWA, along with AWS and TWS as vector lines coming into your boat (or away from, depending on perspective). Barbs or vector length show the speeds, while the vector angles show the angles. Depth is almost always a data box, but how else would one use that datum? AIS, of course, is shown as targets, and some apps do an excellent job of visually presenting the CPA crossing situation. Radar is rare on a tablet, and this is where they don't work well.

I'm still waiting for the heads up display on wearable glasses controlled by voice +/or taps on the stems. The brain down below out of weather and damp. Have several so some could be worn by crew and some charging. Maybe a charge socket and wire if no spares easily at hand. Until then feel stuck running both tablets and MFDs.

I'm waiting also, but for different reasons than you. I think heads up displays will excel at augmented reality, not at just another way of presenting data. Imagine looking at a shore line and having a radar overlay on it. Imagine looking down at your engine while in the cockpit and seeing it operating in real time (cameras in the engine room) with relevant parameter data. How about marking dangers in the water ahead just by looking at them and your AP makes the dodge? Maybe looking at a boat and having the VHF hail them? The possibilities are endless for augmenting human functions.

I mean, I hit the age where I have to now wear the damn things to see, so they might as well do something more useful...

Mark
 
#41 ·
speaking of "navigation alarms"... it would seem that a skipper should be alert to many things that electronics are sounding an alarm for.... No?

I can set a depth alarm or a high wind alarm which I don't set but would maybe be useful if I was not scanning the displays frequently.

In the case when I set a waypoint... I don't need an alarm... I know where the boat is and how close it is to the waypoint because I can see it on the plotter. What does one use an arrival alarm for?

Collision avoidance alarms seem sensible... giving you time to take action... or else.
 
#42 ·
I agree with your first sentence, and most alarms are turned off on our boat simply because we note the impending alarm condition before the actual alarm does. So most of them become just annoying - particularly when they are going off while one is in control of the situation. Exceptions are things like lost compass, wind, or GPS data, low voltage, etc.

Heck, I pulled the engine alarm wires because we have full gauges and I was sick of hearing that buzzer go every time the alternator shuts off due to full batteries.

Waypoint arrival alarms are usually used under autopilot, where the pilot will either stop steering, continue steering in on the current heading, or need to be set to a different waypoint, when it loses navigation data. When following a route, we don't let our AP make autonomous course changes greater than 15* without our OK, so it alarms me when it needs to be given the OK to turn to the next waypoint.

I have no idea what the purpose of a high wind alarm is. It's not like you wouldn't notice that condition even in a deep sleep.

Mark
 
#43 · (Edited)
A couple quick comments:

I said previously that OpenCPN on a Windows tablet is my primary chartplotter. I’m not advocating it for others (no smack rants here). I’m a inland fair weather weekender, not a cruiser. I’ve always been able to keep the tablet dry, under the dodger if needed. But I realize that offshore is a different story. FWIW, my tablets were all around $250 each, and are dedicated to navigation and PDFs of instruction manuals, sailing magazines, etc. I can attach mouse and keyboard if needed.

My Raymarine instruments are 18 years old, so they’re original Seatalk. The ST4000 AP also has NMEA input terminals. The tablets are fully capable of “running” the Autopilot wirelessly. On my prior boat this was done by Bluetooth, with an industrial grade Bluetooth-serial adapter hooked to the NMEA terminals. Easy for anyone with 1980s vintage RS232 interfacing skills. On my current boat the AP nav instructions are sent by Wifi to a Seatalk router, which puts them on the Seatalk network. With either method, I can tap “Navigate to here” on the chart (or activate a whole route) and set the AP in track mode to let the tablet drive the boat. As mentioned before, each new waypoint alarm must be acknowledged on the AP console or the Raymarine wireless remote handset. Waypoint arrival radius is adjustable within OpenCPN. XTE is reported on both OpenCPN and on AP console.

Maybe other brands, or newer RM models with SeatalkNG, try to prevent 3rd party chartplotters, but I’ve had no problem with it.
 
#44 ·
Maybe other brands, or newer models with SeatalkNG, try to prevent 3rd party chartplotters, but I've had no problem with it.
A bit of confusion. Most AP's allow waypoint navigation from a variety of plotting devices, including tablets. That is just sending the proper nav data to it.

I think we were talking about actual control of an AP through a tablet. Auto/Stby, dodge, changing modes, etc. To my knowledge, this isn't allowed by anyone - even using their own apps.

Mark
 
#46 ·
I can see the logic of having a totally independent AP not on the network. Hard wired and simple and very reliable. But post #44 is the key post for me the way we sail.
I’m sick of software updates adding more features I don’t need. Even things like search patterns seems ridiculous. The personal AIS goes off. You head toward that. The personal epirb goes off now you listen to a third party telling you where to go. All this plus your eyes and brain telling you where to look. What’s the purpose of the a search pattern after you’ve hit the mom button?
Too much crap on tablets, MFDs. Now charts from the government will have too much crap on them as well.
 
#47 ·
My wireless AP remote does control the AP. It’s a PIA on passage. Just something else hanging around your neck. It’s very very rarely used. Maybe if you were using tablets alone with a independent AP a wireless remote would get more use.
 
#52 ·
My wireless AP remote does control the AP. It's a PIA on passage. Just something else hanging around your neck. It's very very rarely used. Maybe if you were using tablets alone with a independent AP a wireless remote would get more use.
Yes, they all have wireless remotes, but TMK none of them allow tablet control.

Funny about the remote. Our pilot package came with one as a sort of bonus tie-in when we bought it. I thought it might be interesting, but find it like you do - pretty useless, and an annoyance having it hanging on me.

It does provide a secondary control, though, if the main controller bites the dust.

Mark
 
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