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post #41 of 51 Old 12-26-2019
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Thumbs down Re: NO PFDs

What is it about humans that they love to play safety police and have something to say about everyone else and their choices?

I'd bet most of these safety police jet down the road in their SUVs, over the speed limit, tailgating, and swerving in and out of traffic with out a thought. Yet let them see some guy without a PFD, and they are freaking out. There is more than nine billion people on the planet, can't we let a few go due to their own stupidity, but really, do you know how few people drown each year? It is a very small number, and most are in non-powered small craft. Often alcohol is involved. Boating is an incredibly safe sport. Check the CDCs website, I think they have the numbers. I looked some time back and it's around 600 deaths per year. Not bad considering the millions that take to the water on any given summer weekend. The safety police want to control and remove the liberties people have enjoy for many decades and to what end? Why does it bother them so much to see a guy without a PDF, a helmet, or a seat belt. It is hurting you?

And please, spare me the cost to society bull too. It doesn't really wash. Live and let live for Pete's sake. Our problem as a society is we don't understand statistics and what the risk we are playing with. I guarantee you the big one on the list, is jumping in your car and driving to the market. Now that's risky behavior! Now please don't come out of your plastic bubbles and attack me.
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Last edited by tcdunlap; 12-26-2019 at 08:26 PM.
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post #42 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

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Originally Posted by tcdunlap View Post
....Now please don't come out of your plastic bubbles and attack me.
Quite an attack for someone who doesnít want to be attacked. I doubt youíll have it both ways, but Iíll try.

Iím fully on board with pushing back on the nanny state. However, as far as PFDs go, only children and PWC are required around here. I donít see encouragement to wear one as playing safety police. I donít always wear one, but take no offense by the advice.

When I was a kid, I was firmly opposed to both helmet laws and seat belt laws. Whether you want to hear it or not, there is a cost to the rest of us for those injuries. Medical, disability, first responder, etc. Nevertheless, thatís not what eventually convinced me otherwise.

I realized, after I matured a bit, that most young kids arenít wearing helmets, because no one else was. Theyíd have been happy to, but felt silly or peer pressured. With helmet laws, too many young die that would have chosen otherwise, once they matured a bit more. You want to require helmets till 35yo, that works.


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post #43 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdunlap View Post
What is it about humans that they love to play safety police and have something to say about everyone else and their choices?

I'd bet most of these safety police jet down the road in their SUVs, over the speed limit, tailgating, and swerving in and out of traffic with out a thought. Yet let them see some guy without a PFD, and they are freaking out. There is more than nine billion people on the planet, can't we let a few go due to their own stupidity, but really, do you know how few people drown each year? It is a very small number, and most are in non-powered small craft. Often alcohol is involved. Boating is an incredibly safe sport. Check the CDCs website, I think they have the numbers. I looked some time back and it's around 600 deaths per year. Not bad considering the millions that take to the water on any given summer weekend. The safety police want to control and remove the liberties people have enjoy for many decades and to what end? Why does it bother them so much to see a guy without a PDF, a helmet, or a seat belt. It is hurting you?

And please, spare me the cost to society bull too. It doesn't really wash. Live and let live for Pete's sake. Our problem as a society is we don't understand statistics and what the risk we are playing with. I guarantee you the big one on the list, is jumping in your car and driving to the market. Now that's risky behavior! Now please don't come out of your plastic bubbles and attack me.
Now please don't come out of your plastic bubbles and attack me.
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So you do a drive by and rant and expect us to put duck tape on our mouths......not hardly. While I agree a smidge about the nanny state,
Where do we draw the lines. What other ďrulesĒ donít you want to follow.

Seatbelts on airplanes?
Child restraints on carnival rides?
Speed limits in school zones?
Right of way to sailing vessels?

You know you donít have to comply with PFD usage. Iím sure that law was just passed to hassle you and others. Itís one of the least intrusive laws there is and is covering public safety. Letís just do away with all the laws concerning public safety.

Glasses to drive
Lights on when raining and driving
Speed limits.
Red and green lights underway at night in a boat.

Come on....just join in with the rest of us....it wonít hurt you😀😀😀😀😀


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post #44 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

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Originally Posted by tcdunlap View Post
What is it about humans that they love to play safety police and have something to say about everyone else and their choices?
This could easily cause this thread to cross the line into one better suited in PWRG (or its new incarnation). Please not here.
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post #45 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs


Most of the guys I see running around on flat bottom, Jon Boats during the dead of winter are looking for striped bass and largemouth bass, though some are searching for spawning yellow perch, especially in the rivers. All that I have encountered are using this type of PFD, mainly for comfort. I used the same PFD while tethered to the jackline and sailing across Albemarle Sound - never had to pull the cord, though.

Good luck,

Gary
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post #46 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

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Link please. I've not seen anything like that, I'm guessing no one here has either. I've worked around rigs, and the ones we wore were >$1000.

https://www.machovec.com/catalog/ind...cial_suits.htm
https://www.machovec.com/catalog/mis230.htm

Literally a single click deeper in your own link. MSRP ~$500, current pricing ~$350 and down. Pay no attention to the "discontinued" on the ones without harnesses, you want WITH harness anyway.
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post #47 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

I wasn't even going to respond to what-his-face. Anyone who comes in with so few posts (11) and makes those kinds of insulting comments really isn't worth spending much time with.

I'm not an ardent PFD proponent. As a canoeist I rarely wore one; pretty much only when doing Class II or greater raps. As I moved into sea kayaking I wore it more, but not always. Now on my sailboat I almost always wear my PFD, but the main reason is the evolution of comfort.

My old canoeing lifejackets were big and bulky. My kayak jackets were better. Today's inflatables are barely noticeable, plus mine has a built-in harness, so I tend to wear it all the time. But I definitely would not routinely wear an old-style bulky foam jacket.

The real risk to crews on cruising-level boats is very small. Most boater-related drownings occur in small boats. Looking at 2018 USCG stats, the numbers are overwhelmingly located in open powerboats, then more distantly followed by kayak, canoe, pontoon boat, and row boat. Cabin powerboat comes in much lower, and sailboat barely registers.

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post #48 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsop View Post
https://www.machovec.com/catalog/mis230.htm

Literally a single click deeper in your own link. MSRP ~$500, current pricing ~$350 and down. Pay no attention to the "discontinued" on the ones without harnesses, you want WITH harness anyway.
I followed your link and it went to a gumby/abandonment suit.

If the link was correct, you can't sail in a suit like that. It's kept with your ditch gear and you only put it on as your boat is sinking. Not intended for daily wear.
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post #49 of 51 Old 12-27-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

On a passage, I always wear a PFD, out of the cockpit and whenever out of the cabin at night. It's a Type 5 with harness and PLB. That's so they can recover the body for my wife's sake if the jack lines give. Racing around the buoys and kayak or canoeing, most definitely an inherently buoyant paddle jacket. It's warm and protects against the occasional boat bite. Water temp around here almost never gets below 50 F; air 40 to 60F. It's very difficult to recover a Person In Water. We just lost a local sailor recently on an inshore race, partly because of difficulty getting him onboard. His jacket didn't inflate. Check your equipment and maintain it. Previous posters are correct that the great majority of fatalities are small power boats and many involve alcohol. What they haven't said was the enormous number of rescues that were successful because the PIW was wearing a PFD. Make your choice, Have fun and be safe.
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post #50 of 51 Old 12-28-2019
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Re: NO PFDs

Your low post count has nothing to do with any determination of intelligence. It would reveal a naivete on how these forums work. You'll never convince anyone of your point of view on politics, no matter what they are. Nor will you ward off an attack, after accusing others of being in a plastic bubble.

Just chill, hang around and talk about sailing.


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