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post #41 of 95 Old 02-01-2020
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

There should be no confusion unless someone has lived their life with their head in the sand. Resentment, sure, Lot's of people resent paying taxes and fees but they do it, in part, to avoid the penalties that can come from not paying them.

As to why cities, towns and states want their money, Well, they like to spend. "Some" of it at least gets to places like Boat Ramps, Waterfront Parks, Town Marinas, etc.

Marinas will report you ( Not you ) because when there's a Hurricane or a Flood and your unregistered, uninsured boat ends up totaled or on the bottom, in a marsh, on the highway etc. They ( and maybe the town) are left holding the bag for the cleanup and disposal after you've walked away and disappeared. That exact scenario played out at my marina and many others after hurricane Sandy. Boats were strewn all over the place. When the Marinas and authorities tried to contact the owners based on the registration numbers on the boat, they found that the owner had sold it years before and the new owner never registered, or insured it, and left the old numbers on it. ( plus, there are legal fees to the marina to file salvage claims etc)

If I understand your proposed situation, where you want to take on a partner? Why would I purchase half a share in a vessel, and not have any of the official documentation of ownership in my name? Documentation or Title, Registration, Insurance etc. Updating that documentation is going to generate fees. I suppose you could agree to sell the share for a dollar to " avoid" the sales tax. But some other legal document ( partnership agreement? ) would be needed to appraise the value of the joint property and outline the exit clauses etc.

Last edited by tempest; 02-01-2020 at 10:08 AM.
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post #42 of 95 Old 02-01-2020
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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Originally Posted by tempest View Post
There should be no confusion unless someone has lived their life with their head in the sand. Resentment, sure, Lot's of people resent paying taxes and fees but they do it, in part, to avoid the penalties that can come from not paying them.

As to why cities, towns and states want their money, Well, they like to spend. "Some" of it at least gets to places like Boat Ramps, Waterfront Parks, Town Marinas, etc.

Marinas will report you ( Not you ) because when there's a Hurricane or a Flood and your unregistered, uninsured boat ends up totaled or on the bottom, in a marsh, on the highway etc. They ( and maybe the town) are left holding the bag for the cleanup and disposal after you've walked away and disappeared. That exact scenario played out at my marina and many others after hurricane Sandy. Boats were strewn all over the place. When the Marinas and authorities tried to contact the owners based on the registration numbers on the boat, they found that the owner had sold it years before and the new owner never registered, or insured it, and left the old numbers on it. ( plus, there are legal fees to the marina to file salvage claims etc)

If I understand your proposed situation, where you want to take on a partner? Why would I purchase half a share in a vessel, and not have any of the official documentation of ownership in my name? Documentation or Title, Registration, Insurance etc. Updating that documentation is going to generate fees. I suppose you could agree to sell the share for a dollar to " avoid" the sales tax. But some other legal document ( partnership agreement? ) would be needed to appraise the value of the joint property and outline the exit clauses etc.
Every boat yard I had my boat at demands an insurance certificate...

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post #43 of 95 Old 02-01-2020
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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A boat is sold and the new owner turns the keys and takes off to wherever. The registration... and actually payment of the taxes due falls to the buyer... so dealer says with a smile.. register the boat when you figure out where.... Oh and pay the applicable taxes.



Buyer says... I'm not sticking around in the States I am going to be a boat bum in Grenada... But I may document it. AH you need a US mailing address for that. Cool... I got one for a while. So off he putt putts... documents his boat and decides to ignore the registration and use the tax money to fit the boat out for the passage.

If the deal has not reported the sale... or the private seller... the state has no one to "go after" for their taxes... the one where the boat was sold...
The sales tax is often not even due for that example. Not necessarily triggered by where the sale takes place,

only if the boat is sticking around, that is the usual standard applied.

99% of the time no "dealer" is involved, but when they are they do have requirements and the correct knowledge.

> why would the new owner's state have any knowledge that one of its residents bought an expensive boat? They wouldn't unless the seller reported to the buyer's state... and they likely wouldn't.

Again, where the buyer resides is pretty irrelevant, where **the boat** stays in the years after the purchase, that is critical.



> But why would a marina become a reporting service for their state's tax department? Is there a law mandating this somehow? Clearly you don't have to have a boat registered to use it... or am I misunderstanding something?

Yes of course to use a boat it must be registered if required by the state it's in. And if the regs require marinas report, then they do, why wouldn't they? Harbormasters, patrolling officials, tax men walk the docks, varies by state but all are common.



> I am not opposed to taxes and fees if they are fair and sensible. I am surprised at how crazy the "system" in place is. I can see why there could be confusion and resentment.

I doubt if anyone is too concerned about those feelings. For any given state it's usually straightforward.

What gets more difficult is when the owner's residence, the boat's previous registration and where it ends up staying are all different, or when the buyer is trying to cheat.

Then calling a maritime experienced lawyer may well be worthwhile.
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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Every boat yard I had my boat at demands an insurance certificate...
Same here, but owners do let the ins. lapse, disappear, stop paying storage fees etc. It happens all the time. Boat yards then have to attach liens, file salvage claims etc.

And it makes the owners even harder to find when the boat was not properly registered, etc.
and their address was a PO box. Their ex-wives, or something.

Sandy hit, with most of the boats already in winter storage or hauling out quickly. It's possible that some Yards trying to accommodate ( please haul me out, and I'll get the paperwork to you) got burned. What I do know is that a lot of boats went unclaimed after Sandy, as people just walked away from them, as the salvage cost more than the vessel.
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

My experience:

We bought a boat in Florida over 20 years ago and registered it in CT, where we delivered the boat and have kept it all that time. Florida gave us something like 30 days after commissioning to prove it had been moved out of FL lest we have to pay them sales tax. (We had paid CT sales tax based on the actual sale price before the boat was splashed for the delivery trip to CT).

Well, we sent a receipt for fuel from Beaufort, NC within the 30 day period. Nonetheless, we had a letter from FL that had crossed in the mail, waiting for us on arrival home, looking for proof).

But the story wasn’t over. CT sent us a bill for additional sales tax based on the blue book value (substantially more than we actually paid—through a broker. (No games here!). CT demanded we provide a copy of the check paid to the original owner, which our finance company provided. That ended the story.

Interestingly, CT accepted the actual sales price for the boat, but property taxes on cars are based on blue book but that’s another story (I had to pay sales tax on the mfr’s $12K rebate (taken off the dealer’s price) when I bought my current vehicle.

Lesson here is that states can be aggressive in chasing tax revenue, as others have said.
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
....You literally can't drive a car off a lot without it being registered and that requires proof of sales tax payment. I suppose a car an be towed.

A boat is sold and the new owner turns the keys and takes off to wherever. The registration... and actually payment of the taxes due falls to the buyer... so dealer says with a smile.. register the boat when you figure out where.... Oh and pay the applicable taxes........
This is not really how it works. If a boat dealer is doing business in a State with a sales tax, they would typically be required to collect it from the buyer. IF the buyer was not a resident of that State and was removing the property fro that State, the dealer may not be required to collect the tax. When I bought my last boat out of state, I was required to complete some paperwork, so the dealer (it was a used dealer) would have documentation as to why they didn't collect it and, therefore, couldn't get in trouble. Remember, its the owner that owes it.

If the transaction is person to person, the rules change again. No individual would be required to collect the State's sales tax, so the buyer is entirely obligated to figure out who they owe and pay it. There are some States that do not assess a sales tax between individuals on used property. That sure seems fair, but taxes are not designed to be fair. They are designed to raise money. Money which is not earned, just taken, therefore, rarely spent with care.
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

How long have these "predatory" tax policies/schemes been in place? Does it go back to the '50s... '80s... the '00s? Since I haven't been a buyer since '85 and likely won't be... this feels "newish"...not that sales and use tax didn't exist.. I was just not aware of it? Now I am understanding that a boat offered for $50K is really $50K + sales tax

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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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If you move it later, the new State will impose a Use Tax, if they have one. Most do.
Or not.

Once again, if you have owned and used your boat in another state besides Florida, for at least six month, then you can bring it to Florida and you will not owe even one, single dime in sales or use tax. It doesn't matter how much, or how little, sales/use tax you might have paid previously.

I believe I have seen it posted that the laws are similar in some other states, but Florida is the only one that I am absolutely certain about.

The same applies to cars, by the way.

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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

The history of taxes is interesting. Tax in some form, has been around forever. We started a revolutionary war over it (sort of, it was really just the straw that broke our back). Most of the time it was strictly based on commerce or land. It’s more interesting to hear modern political rhetoric, which pretends all these taxes always existed. One candidate wants to use them to redistribute, the next wants to give you your money back. They are both trying to buy someone’s vote. I wish we could come up, with a system that separated policy and law making, from the money.

Both sales and income taxes have only been around permanently in the US since the early 1900s. I think NY, where you live, didn’t adopt until much later. 60s ish?

I wonder how many realize it took a constitutional amendment to give the federal government the right to assess a permanent income tax. Most can’t even answer basic civics questions, but are still allowed to vote.

I say all ballot boxes should be electronic. You cast your votes and are then presented with 5 basic civics questions. If you don’t get 4 right, your vote doesn’t count. 🙂
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Re: Best Eastern Seaboard State for Sales Tax

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The history of taxes is interesting. Tax in some form, has been around forever. We started a revolutionary war over it (sort of, it was really just the straw that broke our back). Most of the time it was strictly based on commerce or land. It’s more interesting to hear modern political rhetoric, which pretends all these taxes always existed. One candidate wants to use them to redistribute, the next wants to give you your money back. They are both trying to buy someone’s vote. I wish we could come up, with a system that separated policy and law making, from the money.

Both sales and income taxes have only been around permanently in the US since the early 1900s. I think NY, where you live, didn’t adopt until much later. 60s ish?

I wonder how many realize it took a constitutional amendment to give the federal government the right to assess a permanent income tax. Most can’t even answer basic civics questions, but are still allowed to vote.

I say all ballot boxes should be electronic. You cast your votes and are then presented with 5 basic civics questions. If you don’t get 4 right, your vote doesn’t count. 🙂


Rubish.

I suggest that the “civics” questions picked are by the primary groups Which make up the US population not by a bunch of educated white old men.

A litmus test like this has no bearing on the qualifications of a voter to pick THEIR individual candidate. These “Jim Crow” like qualifications were exactly what the southern states tried and continually try to “pare” down their roles of minority voters. The Constitution guarantees civil rights and liberties to the individual—like freedom of speech, press, and religion. it doesn’t require a litmus test. Any attempt to prevent ANY citizen of the US from exercising their legal rights by putting obstructions from voting like a test will and have been ruled unconstitutional. 😃😃😃😃


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