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Love the one your are with!! ❤️

5K views 46 replies 14 participants last post by  cthoops 
#1 ·
We love our old tubby boat. So many great things about it and we have done so much to customize it to our weird desires.

EXCEPT she hobby horses and I’m having this weird sail problem.

The hobby or sing is tough and I’m at least partly to blame for adding a bunch of weight to the ends. Some can not be avoided, the big anchor, but I made the arch out of steel. The arch works very, very well but is heavy. Now I could replace it with aluminum but that would cost.

And the sail issue will likely cause me to have a new Yankee made, and maybe a new staysail as well.

So I’m bored in Antigua (yeah I know, your hearts are bleeding! Harumph!!) so I start looking at Yachtworld for a newer boat that more or less matches our boat; basically a 44’ center cockpit cutter, 2000 or newer.

What I discovered was that they all cost waaaay more than our boat. I’m talking like $250k up with an average somewhere about $350k. Now our boat is worth maybe $100k, maybe not. Now here’s the dangerous rub.

What could I do with our boat if I dumped $100k into her? WOW!!!! I know I would never get that investment back but so what, can’t spend it from the grave. :devil

I have no intention of spending that kind of money in this boat but it sure removes the guilt if feel for blowing maybe $20k - $30k.

Somehow I feel this is dangerous logic.
 
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#9 ·
Can you explain what the sail problem is, and why hobby-horsing causes it? Collapsing? Blocking vision?

Large amounts of money won't solve something like hobby-horsing unless you plan major structural changes.

$20-30,000 sounds like a lot for a new yankee. Even a new yankee and new staysail.

Mark
Sail and hobby horsing are two unrelated problems.

I put a heavy steel arch on, I could replace it with an aluminum arch of the same profile and loose a bunch of weight. I already gave up my Danforth stern anchor of a Fortress.

The sail issue is still tentative but for now I'm blaming the Yankee. It creates a LOT of heel. It's so heavy it just hangs like a drake in under 7knots apparent, but then by 12Knots it is giving me heavy weather helm. I have started experimenting with an smaller and lighter sail and will eventually come to some conclusion about what I want.

The money number was nothing specific, just making the point i could really splurge on the boat and still be much cheaper than buying a different boat.

Not saying I will do that, I remain at my core a cheap old sod.
 
#3 ·
I am having this exact 'problem'. I could buy a newer bigger boat. My current boat is a minor % of my total assets, however, if I bought a newer bigger boat it would be a larger % of my assets. Bad news if I accidentally put it on the rocks... whereas this boat *touch wood* could be a walk-away with no real pocket incapacity.

If I did buy a bigger boat it couldnt just be 2 feet bigger... it would need to go from my 39 footer to a 46 footer or a 50 footer to make any *appreciable* difference to lifestyle. Also what a hassle to change boats!

So Last year I did what you are thinking and did a few lifestyle upgrades to the boat... a new hot water system so I can have hot water at the dock (like, when do I ever go to a dock??? - except in europe) . I spent probably $10k on stuff I would never get back if I sold it.

My solution is to Love the one I'm with :)


Mark
PS if someone wants to down-size and do a swapsie, I'd be kinda interested.
 
#4 ·
I have been pretty continuously adding “better living” upgrades to my boat since leaving to cruise full time. But if i had the money I like MarkJ would be looking at going up to a 46’ boat to make an impact. Or .......... a power boats :devil

But i dont look boat online anymore. Boat lust if you a boat already is cruiser Sin!
 
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#5 ·
Aluminum anchor and aluminum arch perhaps? Doubt if the anchor really matters much, given the displacement of your boat. I find my boat will hobby-horse at times, but this is due to specific wave conditions. There's a certain wavelength/amplitude which just sets up the perfect ugly pattern.

As to the more interesting question of love, yes, you gotta love the one you're with. Once the eye starts wondering, you're done!

I know my weaknesses (or some of them). This is why I have never gone looking since buying my current old gal. I know I'll just be tempted by those newer curves and lighter figures. But I also know I can't afford these temptresses -- so it remains a wet dream.:laugh

Er, what are we talking about ...? Oh yeah, boats. I love mine :kiss
 
#6 ·
After 16yrs, we did change boats. Personally, I never think it is a good idea to have more money in a boat than you can afford to walk away from. Insurance does help in this equation.

Our new boat cost more, but surprisingly is a lower initial percentage of our assets as the old one was when we bought it (our old boat was considered part of our assets by this time, so selling it actually made the new boat lower). It is a larger percentage at this time than our old one was when we sold it, but we could still walk away from it at the worse, and we will be almost whole with the insurance if something catastrophic happens.

Depending on what type of boat one has, and what type of boat one wants, two feet can be a large difference. I don't mean mono to cat, but mono to mono. Our old monohull was a 40' 1960's CCA design. If it were exchanged for a current Euro designed 42', there would be 4x the space gained, almost twice the waterline, and much more sail area.

Even catamarans are like this depending on design. A Lagoon 42 has twice the space of a Manta 40.

Mark
 
#7 ·
Getting a larger boat at this stage in my life is not in the cards. The main reason is that the boat we have works perfectly fine for how we use and where we sail this boat. It's a weekend home... a vacation and something that keeps me busy.

Boats in the mid 40s and up offer lots of volume and faster passages. This is simply not worth what it would cost. How can I justify spending another say.... $110k to go 15-20% faster for local cruising... or to be able to store more "junk" or to be able to walk around the berth? No way Jose.

I did almost all the upgrades needed over the years I have owned the boat. What can and occasionally should be upgraded/replaced are sails, electronics and the dink. Upholstery is in great condition and will outlive me. Shiva is comfortable and sails well and is a pleasure to own when I am not doing grunt work... which I now pay the yard for. The design is very well conceived and something I did not understand when I bought the boat.

I do love the one I'm with and more so with each passing year.
 
#8 ·
We think about other boats a lot. Less maintenance and a different lifestyle. Chances are, if we do change boats, it would be something we couldn't charter (we really enjoy chartering), so we'd lose that income.
Top of the list would be a Brown Searunner 37' or 40'. Back to basics and a real scooter here in the Caribbean. In 15 to 20 on any point of sail except a run, she'll average 16 knots all day long. These are also the most comfortable boats, in the worst anchorages, I've ever been associated with, if properly anchored.
At one point there was an 80' ex-racing tri for sale pretty cheap in Martinique that we lusted after for a few months. We could just imagine 2 hour channel crossings and a quick trip to visit family, St.T to Newport (or vice versa) in about a week. Zip, zip, zip.

On the other side of the coin, a smaller (30 to 36 feet) motor boat would allow us to cruise in areas we won't sail now, like the Canadian Maritimes and Hudson Bay. The big hitch here is fuel economy. I have run across small motor boats, usually ex-fishing vessels, that can get 5 nautical miles to the gallon, but they are rare. And then there's making it comfortable as a full time liveaboard. We like going places and doing things, not hanging around a boat yard for 6 months or so waiting for the work to get done.
So, barring a lotto win, this is my last boat and any change is pure fantasy.
 
#10 ·
Thinking a bit more (see what you've started Howard!)... I honestly don't desire more boat. I don't need more boat. My 37-footer (actually, 36' 9", the same LOA as Spray :)) has pretty small living space compared to modern boats. But it has way more storage space than most.

This is largely why I chose this boat. It has the right amount of living and storage space for how I (we) want to cruise. Why would I want more? Or less, for that matter.

As I've often said, my view is people should get the smallest boat they can live with, not chase after the biggest boat they afford. Some of the reasons have already been touched on: bigger boat means bigger financial ties/more assets tied up/bigger risk. What would you get with a bigger boat? More space to hold more stuff? Bigger berths? Larger galley and head spaces? More space for guests?

If you need these things, then go bigger. But do you really need them? What do you need?

The one reason I can see us buying a different boat is if we choose to move to the west coast. If we do this it probably makes more sense to simply sell here on the east, and buy on the west. But who knows...
 
#11 ·
What would you get with a bigger boat?
Waterline. The most important aspect of any boat. I'd modify your statement to people should get the smallest waterline they can live with.

This could mean a smaller overall boat if the waterline is long, but a larger one if the waterline is short.

In my years of boating, I've come to the conclusion that (for me) waterline is the single largest contributor to comfort and performance, and a plumb end boat solves many an ill.

Mark
 
#14 ·
The *Key* issue is.... junk.

If some thief would come and ransack my boat and take everything that is on the inside away I would have a big enough boat!

:|
Just put the word out to the local kids. Problem solved!
 
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#16 ·
If I were to instantly be given a whole bunch of money I might be induced to by a Bestever, with a plumb bow. And I agree that waterline is a more important indicator than LOA. I personally when comparing boats would look at: displacement, waterline, beam, draft, air draft, and then LOD/LOA.

But that’s not the point, I’ve got the boat I’ve got and I don’t got an unlimited pile of cash. So what cash I do have is better spent on the boat I have and very much like than on a more modern replacement, which would cost a bunch more.

I could take a total loss on our boat and go out and buy a replacement, cash. Could spend a nice little pile on our current boat and make it even better/nicer. But if I bought a replacement to get a more modern boat and then lost it I could not replace it. If that makes any kind of sense.

I’m not longing for a new boat or a bigger boat, just maybe a slightly better modification to the boat I’ve got. It’s big and comfy and gets my sea sick wife around in relative comfort. What’s not to love.
 
#19 ·
Yup, I don’t want a bigger or fancier boat and we live aboard for significant periods. We love our substandard housing boat. It has all we need and nothing we don’t want. Thankfully I have a very low maintenance Wife, her standards are even lower than mine, if that is imaginable.

I have the satisfaction of being quite happy right where we are in terms of boat. Just a couple of minor improvements, but even that serves a useful purpose. It gives my mind something to turn on.

Is my joy making others upset?
 
#20 ·
SchockT,

Thanks for the comments. I don’t want to go through the whole headsail issue here. The damn Yankee is producing heel and weatherhelm. I have eliminated the main.
 
#21 ·
SchockT,

Thanks for the comments. I don't want to go through the whole headsail issue here. The damn Yankee is producing heel and weatherhelm. I have eliminated the main.
Well, if you love your boat, a new suit of sails would be money well spent! There is nothing worse than old bagged sails when the wind picks up!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 
#23 ·
My wife and I agonize over whether we’d like to have really big sailboat for a period of our lives. We were actually in contract for one last year, but it fell through. The PO got selfish, or we’d own it today. Other than money, the dilemma is that today we could handle her operation. Once retired, who knows. Buy it while you could use it and throw a lot of retirement money down the drain. Wait to see what health and retirement brings and round and round it goes.

A buddy is in the same situation. He wants a newer, bigger boat. We are both interested, not exclusively for our personal comfort, but for the many guests we both have. Anyway, he looks at me and asks how I’d feel, if my current boat was my last. I could instantly and honestly say, I’d live happily ever after. Sure, I keep upgrading stuff aboard, but it’s no different than remodeling your kitchen at home.
 
#24 ·
Go figure, here I sit up on a mountain watching the first snow begin, sharpening my skis, and what am i thinking about.....thinking about sailing season!

Disclaimer here, we don't live aboard and probably never will, have only so many miles under our keel since we returned to sailing three years ago after over a 25 year hiatus so only so much perspective, retired a decade ago and not getting younger, and own the boat we dreamed about owning 31 years ago (new design in 1988) when we first gave up the habit of tricking the wind into moving our boat. She is not big, nor is she commodious. She has some wrinkles from age and regular checkups are necessary, but she still turns heads and most importantly mine. She still has her same sea kindly and sea worthy moves and she is still made and is an older unchanged design because, as the company that made her says, the demands of the sea have not.

I have been married over forty years and there are many things we both wish were a little different about each other. We are no longer the young immortal folks we once were, need regular check ups, are not as sleek as newer designs, but we also know we are still grateful for having each other regardless of what time has wrought and would never change because the demands of life have not.

...... love the one your with.
 
#25 ·
Sometimes you put money in a boat you can't recover.

But sometimes, if you don't upgrade, it's not that you will get it back in the obvious way, it's that your boat will actually sell without cutting the price 50%. So perhaps, you got it back after all.

The way the market is now, smart people don't even look at boats are not in prime condition. Why bother?
 
#26 ·
Yes that is what I mean when I say "minimize the depreciation".

I have to disagree about not looking at boats that aren't in prime condition. If you are a DIY boater you may be able to get into a lot more boat than you would otherwise be able to afford. A lot of deferred maintenance items that reduce the selling price are easy enough to catch up on. Believe it or not some people actually enjoy working on boats!

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk
 
#27 ·
One difference in the opinions in this thread is that some of us expect to sell our boat at some time, and some of us don’t.

I guess a time will come when we must part with the boat, but hopefully it’s still a long way off and she won’t be worth much by then simply because of age.
 
#28 · (Edited)
I don't put money into or do things to my boat to “get money back”. I do those things to make living and traveling in my home better.

I will never get that money back. Have you not read all the “how to buy a boat and screw the seller” threads here and on other forums?
 
#29 ·
Timely thread for us. We’ve been cruising full time on our Bristol 29.9 for 18 months (currently in the Bahamas for our second winter). After listening to so many people tell us we need a bigger boat, I got curious and decided to see what’s out there on YachtWorld and Sailboatlistings.

What I discovered is that for our price range and search parameters, it’s all a step down. Granted, we did a complete refit before we left which skews the results for us, but things like water tankage capacity don’t typically change with a refit.

Do we need more space for storage? No. Would it be nice to go a bit faster and be more comfortable in heavier conditions, which a longer waterline and more weight would give us? Sure. Am I willing to give up the new engine, new standing and running rigging, new sails, Firefly batteries, windvane, new electric windlass, etc., all in a boat that I find aesthetically attractive and that makes me smile when I spot her as I’m dinghying back to the anchorage to get it? Definitely not. Particularly given the kind of cruising that we like to do, which we learned only by actually doing it (the reality is certainly different than the fantasy).

Yeah, we’ll take a bath on her when we eventually sell, but so what. In the meantime we definitely love the one we are with, and I appreciate her even more after looking to see what else is out there that is realistically obtainable for us now that we’ve retired.
 
#34 ·
Funny, my insurance company seems to encourage some to buy a bigger boat, if they want coverage offshore. Minimum of 40ft. No idea why they set it that way. I only learned of it, when getting a quote for a Bermuda passage rider. It was one of the conditions, which seemed pretty stupid, since the boat they were quoting it on was well over. I guess if we sawed a couple dozen feet off, it would have voided the rider. :)
 
#36 ·
'All boats are compromises'

Our boat is big enough to take us anywhere we may care to go and small enough that I can afford to own her, upgrade her, and cruise her pretty much indefinitely. We do know plenty of cruising families on large modern cats and every now and then I do consider this route. There is a lot to like in a large cat for extended family cruising. However like Hpeer, when I start to look around, a FP Astrea 42 for example is nearly 8- 10 times the price of what our boat cost us and I think maybe not. The reality is we would still cruise the same places, do the same things albeit in a bit more comfort and with a bit more space but that's just not enough to convince me to basically pile my entire life savings into the boat.

The old adage is true. The sunsets still look the same.
 
#37 ·
Nicely put Chall. Sounds like a similar approach to mine: Get the smallest boat you can live with, not the largest boat you can afford. Some people need a 50'+ boat. Others get along just fine with less than 30'. The trick is to know what you need.

With less of your finances tied up in the hull, you have a greater freedom to live, without the fear of loss, or without having to run hard on the income treadmill to maintain an expensive, often more complicated, larger boat.

Sure, the extra space is nice when at anchor, and bigger is (usually) better when it comes to dealing with ugly seas and winds. But the views are the same.
 
#38 ·
When I got the boat.... I was working full time and making more than I needed so I decided to... "invest" in a boat. No it would not be like buying shares... or perhaps even a weekend home at the seaside... but it was a home and it was where almost all my leisure time was spend... happily... aside from international travel. The boat was way way way less than a vacation property... and it allowed me to spend my vacation in multiple locations... Maine, Mass, RI, CT... NY Caribe... and more. Can't do that with a home (except a motor home.

The small as you can you can live with and large as you can afford fits my decision process perfectly. Had I started with a 40' boat I would still be in it... At the time 36 seem large enough. The 36s is large enough and time has proven this to be true. I don't have kids to consider... now grand kids from my wife's side so the boat has been perfect for how it was used.

When I sell it I will get something back. No it has not appreciated in value.. But the year by year expense of ownership, insur, mooring and so on is perfectly reasonable for the "home" that it is. Whatever I get and it will be in the 10s of thousands... will go to the grad kids I suppose... or us to use in the non mobile years.

Best money I ever spent.... wouldn't change a thing. Who knew how well it would work out!
 
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