Should Boating be Licensed - Page 4 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 237 Old 06-08-2007
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 79
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I was all set to argue vehemently against any sort of license til I read the very sad story from USCG. It sucks when children pay for an adults stupidity.

Even so, I still lean towards no licensing. I think the great majority of boaters are responsible people. In order to make a lay person into a good and safe boater, the test would have to be extensive. Also, the license or lack of a license could be used to limit activities. Would I need a special certificate to night sail? How about single handing, which many want to outlaw outright anyway?

I dread the idea of non-boaters drafting regulations for the boating community. Just wait til they hear about bosun's chairs. Those things would make a safety nazi cringe with fear. Mandatory safety inspection requiring certified experts to do the repairs. An amateur could leave a hose clamp loose so it'll now cost you $1000 to get minor repairs done to your engine. My fear of the government exceeds my fear of dumb boaters.
Hawkwind is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 237 Old 06-08-2007
Senior Member
 
Freesail99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Send a message via Yahoo to Freesail99
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBowman
Let's all get suction dart guns. When someone does a stupid act on the water...shoot his boat. If a coastie sees a boat with a number of darts stuck to it, the vessel will be forfeited.

Paint ball guns would be a lot more fun.

S/V Scheherazade
-----------------------
I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Freesail99 is offline  
post #33 of 237 Old 06-08-2007
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I have pictures of the dead children but have decided not to post them.
Few will witness the short comings of boating ignorance that I and a few others have. Apparently that will never be changed. Lets just take the position of Bestfriend and let the laws of natural selection sort em all out...
USCGRET1990 is offline  
 
post #34 of 237 Old 06-08-2007
moderate?
 
camaraderie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,875
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 20
     
USCG
I know you don't agree with anything I post,

I don't know where you got that idea USCG...I agree with a lot of your stuff but I only tend to post when I disagree or have additional stuff to add. What is more...I respect your opinions AND I thank you for your service and I Love the Coasties!!

That said...I can understand where you are coming from on this one but the local cops see a lot more dead kids in cars that you will ever see in boats. And the cars have licenses.
Charge the idiot parents with MANSLAUGHTER if they broke boating laws causing the death of their kids...pass mandatory pfd wearing laws for kids in boats underway.... but don't think for one minute that the drunk in a Bayliner with a license is going to be any safer cause he passed a multiple choice test and forced us all to send in more $$.
camaraderie is offline  
post #35 of 237 Old 06-08-2007
Senior Member
 
T37Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 5,127
Thanks: 107
Thanked 71 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 14
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad
So, should boating be licensed?

Should you have to take classes and pass a test to be able to operate a vessel.
NO to the first question!!!!!!
Yes to the second, already a law in Maryland, anyone born after 1972.

Shawn


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
T37Chef is offline  
post #36 of 237 Old 06-09-2007
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
No offense to anybody, just wanted to shake your tree a bit and see how passionate you actually were on the subject. It's been a major debate for years, kinda like the legallization of pot. Thanks for the input. Made an otherwise boring evening more interesting!
USCGRET1990 is offline  
post #37 of 237 Old 06-09-2007
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Thumbs up

[QUOTE=camaraderie]USCG
I know you don't agree with anything I post,

I don't know where you got that idea USCG...I agree with a lot of your stuff but I only tend to post when I disagree or have additional stuff to add. What is more...I respect your opinions AND I thank you for your service and I Love the Coasties!!

Just thought I'd aggravate you, seing how your out on a nice boat where I should be. ie I'm jealous.
USCGRET1990 is offline  
post #38 of 237 Old 06-09-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seaside, Florida
Posts: 3,336
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
   
It's been a sad realization for me: boaters are often lowlifes. If you could remove them from the planet's watery surface with a license, then I'd be all for it.
sailhog is offline  
post #39 of 237 Old 06-09-2007
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Thumbs up Deadhead Removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailhog
It's been a sad realization for me: boaters are often lowlifes. If you could remove them from the planet's watery surface with a license, then I'd be all for it.
The laws of natural selection would fix that for us if we'd leave it alone and let it happen!!
USCGRET1990 is offline  
post #40 of 237 Old 06-10-2007
Owner, Green Bay Packers
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 10,318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 17
       
As much as it pains me (g) I have to join Camaraderie in his opinion.

Currently, the only people who are licensed are merchant marine officers. Yes, your "six pack" makes you a merchant marine officer. As with all licensing, after whatever level of training required, the only purpose is an attempt to assess competency and to have something to take away from you if you screw up. The current USCG license exams do a pretty good job, not the least of which is due to the 90% pass/fail standard on critical sections of the exams. To even imagine that such an exam would be practicable for boaters in general is beyond belief and would, rightly, be considered onerous.

Coast Guardsmen and US Navy officers are not licensed. I will not get in to my thoughts on that issue. (say, "thankyou, sailaway")

Any license that would be even marginally effective would also be prohibitively expensive. Just look at the size of your state's DMV. The expectation that licenses for boating would be any more rigorous than those for driving is more wishful thinking than realistic. And we see how well motor vehicle driver's licenses are working out in terms of roadway competency.

In fact, I would postulate that driver's licenses are, and should be considered, unconstitutional. I'll not delve into my legal reasoning for such a belief. (say, "thank God for that, sailaway") Consider the fact that every form of transportation available to you, terrestially, there is no licensing required. You just saddle up and go.

In air and sea licensing, the really rigorous examination begins where you are endeavoring to do something where the general public is at risk, and where that public has a right to consider you inherently professional. And that's reasonable I would say.

A not unreasonable fear that I, and other licensed professionals, share is the chance of being cited for some type of violation and having it discovered that I am USCG licensed. I can be proceeded against, for revocation or suspension of my Masters-oceans license, for not having the proper number of flotation cushions in my row boat while perch fishing. In much the same way that a truck driver, receiving a citation whilst driving the wife's mini-van, has that citation count against his CDL. That is patently ridiculous.

USCGret1990's point about fatalities, while heart-wrenching, is not valid. Whenever one adopts the "one life saved" standard one is opening the door to irrationality. The logical extension of this point, ie.. ad absurdum, is that we ban boating as inherently unsafe. We take the same view on driving, where we say such absurd things like, "speed kills". Which is demonstrably not true, as we have the fewest accidents on the roads with the highest speeds. Of course we are not going to ban either boating or driving, nor should we. The fact is, they are both inherently risky. We assume that risk, daily, based upon it's lack of frequency and not the severity of injury when we lose the bet.

Now for the really controversial part. Licensing makes driving, and would make boating, less safe. Say what, you say? In short, it has to do with the unpredictability factor. When a lighted traffic signal goes up at an intersection, where previously there was none, the number of accidents goes up at that intersection. The severity of the accidents goes down, but the overall number goes up. The obvious reason for this is that when two roads meet, with no signal, the approaching drivers operate with extreme caution, not knowing exactly what to expect. Where there is a traffic signal, and it turns green, the driver is completely surprised by the guy running the red light who T-bones him. Having driven in countries where there is little or no control over traffic I can testify that while it may be hair-raising, it is safer in some ways, in that everyone is really paying attention. When there is a better than even chance of hitting a cow around the next bend you tend to drive differently than if the road is fenced off as are our interstates. Now mind you, I did say safer. I did not say more efficient. We'd all be driving at half the speed we do if there were no traffic control devices. The same applies to licensing of drivers. We "assume" that the other driver is a competent licensed driver. One of the reasons kids get into so many accidents is that they are very familiar with the rules of the road and the "proper" way to drive. And so, it comes as a complete surprise to them when somebody does something that their driver's ed. instructor told them never to do. Once those kids become acclimated to the fact that they cannot trust other drivers to follow the rules of the road, they become better drivers and look out for other drivers better. Of course, that is negated by the fact that they themselves now start to pick and choose which rules of the road they will obey.

So, if we license boaters, there will be a prima facie exp-ectation of competence. The "head on a swivel" condition will go down, and more accidents will be "surprises". Instead, what we have now is a group of very nervous sailors, with boats they really can't afford, watching ever so carefully for the next SeaRay screwball who may or may not be determined on ruining our day. It is not for nothing that the words, "Hard Right" send an equal shiver down the merchant ship captain's spine, while off the bridge in the chart-room, as they do the yachtsman's, who's just stepped below to use the head. They both know that something untoward has happened and that the helmsman is taking action to avoid collision. If we are the "stand-on" vessel in a crossing situation and we have reason to believe that the "give-way" vessel is piloted with competence we do not get as nervous, as quickly, as we would when we don't know who the hell is over there and if he really knows what to do. Hence, experienced watch-standers take early and decisive action, not allowing the situation to become "in extremis" through no doing of our own.

As a licensed professional, I am very leary of "you guys". And that's probably why I've never hit one of you. I have to be licensed, you shouldn't.

“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.”
Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
sailaway21 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
USCG Licensed 100 ton Master with Sailing Endorsement needed AtlanticYachting Crew Wanted/Available 0 06-18-2009 01:00 PM
Licensed Sailor available davidNwillems Crew Wanted/Available 0 09-22-2008 03:36 PM
Licensed Captain available IN THE MED. Now brummy Crew Wanted/Available 0 05-09-2002 06:06 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome