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post #21 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

Having a spade rudder knocked off by hitting something or tangling with nets etc. is probably a reason for one being nervous of it but I have a different reason for not wanting one.

To test this reason is (for me) simple. Take a broom, hold it in one hand at the very end of the handle and, keeping the handle horizontal, see how long you can hold it. I suspect this test will not take long.

Now hold it in one hand at the very end of the handle and hold it in the middle of the handle with the other hand and, keeping the handle horizontal, see how long you can hold it. You will almost certainly get bored before you get tired.

Now I know there are a lot of engineering formulea that will be postulated by the experts but for me, none of them surpass this simple test. A spade rudder places a vastly greater load on hulls, bearings etc. and simply cannot be as strong (weight for weight, size for size) as a skeg-hung rudder. At least, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


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post #22 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

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Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Having a spade rudder knocked off by hitting something or tangling with nets etc. is probably a reason for one being nervous of it but I have a different reason for not wanting one.

To test this reason is (for me) simple. Take a broom, ....

Now I know there are a lot of engineering formulea that will be postulated by the experts but for me, none of them surpass this simple test. A spade rudder places a vastly greater load on hulls, bearings etc. and simply cannot be as strong (weight for weight, size for size) as a skeg-hung rudder. At least, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
You have to go with what gives you the most peace of mind....

So.... I'm assuming then that in keeping with that philosophy you only fly on aircraft that still have wing struts???

Ron

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".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #23 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Having a spade rudder knocked off by hitting something or tangling with nets etc. is probably a reason for one being nervous of it but I have a different reason for not wanting one.

To test this reason is (for me) simple. Take a broom, hold it in one hand at the very end of the handle and, keeping the handle horizontal, see how long you can hold it. I suspect this test will not take long.

Now hold it in one hand at the very end of the handle and hold it in the middle of the handle with the other hand and, keeping the handle horizontal, see how long you can hold it. You will almost certainly get bored before you get tired.

Now I know there are a lot of engineering formulea that will be postulated by the experts but for me, none of them surpass this simple test. A spade rudder places a vastly greater load on hulls, bearings etc. and simply cannot be as strong (weight for weight, size for size) as a skeg-hung rudder. At least, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
And yet this skeg rudder survived, as a spade, to get the guy back to port when the skeg failed...


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post #24 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

Omatako,
Have you ever seen a skeg hung front fork on a bicycle?
It's all about design, engineering and manufacture. When done correctly either design works. And remember you can break anything, even a steel ball.
John
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post #25 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

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And yet this skeg rudder survived, as a spade, to get the guy back to port when the skeg failed...

So, what can one say to that? Perhaps:

"One swallow does not a summer make". Or "Exceptions do nothing to disprove a rule"

Poor construction in anything will fail. That skeg looks like it was made from polyester putty.


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post #26 of 34 Old 10-11-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

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Originally Posted by ccriders View Post
Omatako,
Have you ever seen a skeg hung front fork on a bicycle?
It's all about design, engineering and manufacture. When done correctly either design works. And remember you can break anything, even a steel ball.
John
So then the spade rudders that break are just poorly designed/engineered/made. I get it now. Thanks

Like I said, there will be a lot of formulea from the experts that . . . . . .

Good luck with your spade rudders.


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post #27 of 34 Old 10-12-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

Bob Perry wrote a great article about how the spade rudder is superior in every way to the skeg-hung rudder. I wish I could find it, but the funniest thing was that for a fiberglass boat it is likely the rudder holding the skeg on, not vice versa.
Anyway at one time pilots were not about to fly an airplane without a lot of rigging to support the wings. I have flown a traditional airplane with flying wires between the wings that was as strong as a solid lump of steel and modern airplanes that manage without all the traditional bracing due to modern engineeing and materials too.

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post #28 of 34 Old 10-13-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

One possible solution to the argument of spades, skegs, wires and struts: full keel, transom hung rudder, unstayed masts. Nothing to worry about, provided you don't want to race.
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post #29 of 34 Old 10-13-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

Have a look at Beth and Evans website. They argue the superiority of spade rudder for a long distance cruising yacht much more elegantly than I could: see point number# 50

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post #30 of 34 Old 10-13-2014
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Re: Spade Rudders vs. Skeg Hung

After sailing up and down the east coast for several thousand miles, in what seemed like one continuous crab and lobster pot field; I wouldn't try it in a boat with a spade rudder and exposed prop and shaft. Give me a full keel with the prop enclosed in a cut out.

Calls for help from boats caught in pots and nets were a daily occurrence, it seemed. I'll take the slower boat, every time if it means I don't have to worry about catching my rudder or prop on something, or knocking the rudder off in a minor grounding or collision.

In my Cheoy Lee 31, I simply sailed right through the crab and lobster pot fields without ever catching on anything. Motoring down the Tenn-Tom; I ran over several logs and trees with no damage to the rudder or prop, during flood conditions.

It just makes good sense to have a protected rudder and prop for long term cruising.



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