Albertan rescued after dismasting / engine failure - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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Cold water perceptions

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Water temp in that area less than 75 deg F. With wind chill and your head wet you would not last long.
An interesting cross-cultural take on water temps. For someone from Hawaii, water in the low to mid 70s is cold which I can understand. For those of us from the Great Lakes, it is rare that Lake Ontario for example would ever reach 75F. I used to take kids on canoe trips for a week in small lakes north of Toronto in early May and it was hard to keep the kids out of the water (they did not stay long) - but the lakes were frozen only a few weeks earlier and temps might have been around 50F. I did not go in ever, and that may explain why I like sailing in tropical waters.

I checked a hypothermia chart and with water temps between 70 and 80, the time until 'exhaustion or unconsciousness' is given as 3 to 12 hours. This makes sense to me. I would imagine in a situation like this that the stress and physical exertion would take more out of you than the water temps.

Hypothermia Chart

After the refit we have decided to sell Ainia. We want something smaller that would be could for the light summer winds of Lake Ontario, although we plan to spend at least a couple of winters in the Caribbean before heading north.
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post #22 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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I'm with Killarney, 75 F sounds positively balmy!

From the "Cold water Boot Camp" site: talking about COLD water..


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1 - 10 - 1
1-10-1 is a simple way to remember the first three phases of cold water immersion and the approximate time each phase takes.


1 - Cold Shock. An initial deep and sudden Gasp followed by hyperventilation that can be as much as 600-1000% greater than normal breathing. You must keep your airway clear or run the risk of drowning. Cold Shock will pass in about 1 minute. During that time concentrate on avoiding panic and getting control of your breathing. Wearing a lifejacket during this phase is critically important to keep you afloat and breathing.

10 - Cold Incapacitation. Over approximately the next 10 minutes you will lose the effective use of your fingers, arms and legs for any meaningful movement. Concentrate on self rescue initially, and if that isn’t possible, prepare to have a way to keep your airway clear to wait for self rescue. Swim failure will occur within these critical minutes and if you are in the water without a lifejacket, drowning will likely occur.

1 - HYPOTHERMIA. Even in ice water it could take approximately 1 hour before becoming unconscious due to Hypothermia. If you understand the aspects of hypothermia, techniques of how to delay it, self rescue and calling for help, your chances of survival and rescue will be dramatically increased.

Ron

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post #23 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
An interesting cross-cultural take on water temps. For someone from Hawaii, water in the low to mid 70s is cold which I can understand. For those of us from the Great Lakes, it is rare that Lake Ontario for example would ever reach 75F. I used to take kids on canoe trips for a week in small lakes north of Toronto in early May and it was hard to keep the kids out of the water (they did not stay long) - but the lakes were frozen only a few weeks earlier and temps might have been around 50F. I did not go in ever, and that may explain why I like sailing in tropical waters.

I checked a hypothermia chart and with water temps between 70 and 80, the time until 'exhaustion or unconsciousness' is given as 3 to 12 hours. This makes sense to me. I would imagine in a situation like this that the stress and physical exertion would take more out of you than the water temps.

Hypothermia Chart
I grew up in PA and MD area and have swum in the Chesapeake bay when the water was 32 degree and air temp at 20 F (Polar Bear Plunge in the early 1990"- ice on the water). The problem with the chart is it seems to assume you head is dry and no wind and maybe you are lightly treading water to stay afloat. You loose a lot of heat through your head and if it is wet (waves breaking on top of you) and 40 knot wind blowing you will loose a lot of heat through your head. And as you mention, stress and physical exertion robs you of even more energy. Children, with there large surface area in respect to body size will loose heat even faster.


I question the lasting indefinitely at 80 Deg F. With a core temp of 98 deg F and water at 80 that is a delta T of 18 Deg. Still a lot of heat transfer and water transfers heat very well. The calories to make this up need to come from somewhere- does the chart assume you are floating while eating a 7 course meal?

Last edited by casey1999; 02-09-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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post #24 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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There is a research center in Toronto that has done extensive work on hypothermia. Volunteers (!) hop into ice filled baths in bathing suits with thermometers down their throats and up their butts while they do things like blow air at them. All I can say to those folks, is thank you.

When I got an insurance survey a few years ago the only thing the surveyor recommended was Category 1 (or A, I forget) lifejackets - anyway the really big serious ones. I suspect these things would actually be a big help with hypothermia since they insulate your core pretty well. Also would be a good idea to stick a hat on before jumping in. We bought some of those ones with the two tassels in Peru - could use those and look a bit dorky on rescue.

After the refit we have decided to sell Ainia. We want something smaller that would be could for the light summer winds of Lake Ontario, although we plan to spend at least a couple of winters in the Caribbean before heading north.
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post #25 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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Bradley was interviewed on CBC radio today, great interview to say the least. Apparently the seas were to the point that the ship's bow bulb surfaced and on the decent took out the sailboat. Well worth catching this if your in Canada or northern USA.

Edit: Just realised...I guess this interview is the same one that Casey posted earlier with some lengthy input from the CBC correspondents.


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post #26 of 62 Old 02-09-2012
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Yet another instance of the Americans saving the Canadians' bacon...
pemeal bacon mmmm,,do a run for my american freinds annualy
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post #27 of 62 Old 02-10-2012 Thread Starter
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Here is a photo of the boat. Not a Swan.



Centre cockpit.

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Last edited by jackdale; 02-10-2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: not a ketch
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post #28 of 62 Old 02-10-2012
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So much for that newspaper report. Maybe they just went into their files and chose a random sailboat picture. Waht kind of boat is it?

After the refit we have decided to sell Ainia. We want something smaller that would be could for the light summer winds of Lake Ontario, although we plan to spend at least a couple of winters in the Caribbean before heading north.
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post #29 of 62 Old 02-10-2012
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Nice detective work, Jack... definitely not the pic/boat in the other links.

I watched most of that interview and it's a pretty scary story. They were lucky to survive, very fortunate to have been picked up and the crew on the ship deserves kudos.

This story is an interesting parallel to a recent similar saga, don't you think?

btw do you recognize that 'thing'?.... I don't.....

Ron

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post #30 of 62 Old 02-10-2012
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Quote:
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Here is a photo of the boat. Not a Swan.

Centre cockpit.
That is one ugly boat.

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