Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why - Page 11 - SailNet Community
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post #101 of 135 Old 08-19-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

As I have heard it, following the saga for years...
Rocna was designed and built in New Zealand, at first. Good product.
The builder moved production to China. The NZ production manager outed Rocna for specing a lower grade steel than the design called for. He was sued by Rocna and Rocna lost. Reports of bent shanks started showing up. A guy in Seattle did some metalurgy and found the issue and got his money back from West Marine. West then issued a voluntary recall. Rocna started to suffer so they moved production to Canada. Prior to this mess, rocna was at a premium price. Upon moving to Canada, they cut the price. There have not been any issues of cutting corners with Manson Supreme that I ever heard.

Thats the story as I have heard it over the years.
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post #102 of 135 Old 08-20-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

I watched Steve's 40 minute compilation of all the test videos. Based on what I saw there, I would go with the Mantus. Quickest setting, most reliable resetting. I do realize that he tested a 45 pound model, and I want the 35 pound one, so that difference may affect performance. But in general, I think the distribution of the weight to the tip (50% of the total anchor weight) is the key design difference that makes for a more reliable set, deeper dig, and also keeps it in the ground without releasing when jerked 180 degrees.

I've sent a couple questions to Greg Kutsen, and will wait for his answers before ordering. While I wait, I will continue to review additional test information which could potentially alter my decision.


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post #103 of 135 Old 08-20-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

I'd always assumed the performance of the Mantus and Rocna were about the same until a boat (full time cruisers by the way, not new to it at all) came into the anchorage at St. George's, Grenada and took 10 tries to set their Mantus where we have only ever needed one there, with our Rocna. And this boat is all over the web touting the Mantus. Go figure.
Give me real world anchoring results over 'anchor testing' any day.
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post #104 of 135 Old 08-20-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I watched Steve's 40 minute compilation of all the test videos. Based on what I saw there, I would go with the Mantus. Quickest setting, most reliable resetting. I do realize that he tested a 45 pound model, and I want the 35 pound one, so that difference may affect performance. But in general, I think the distribution of the weight to the tip (50% of the total anchor weight) is the key design difference that makes for a more reliable set, deeper dig, and also keeps it in the ground without releasing when jerked 180 degrees.

I've sent a couple questions to Greg Kutsen, and will wait for his answers before ordering. While I wait, I will continue to review additional test information which could potentially alter my decision.


I've seen a few test on all the new gens and don't believe the Mantus infomercial that they are perceptively better at setting or resetting than the Manson or Rocna.

Mantus is a Sailnet sponsor so I don't think all the anchors get the same fair play on here. I say that and still have a Mantus as a spare because it can be carried disassembled in my anchor compartment thus saving space as I think they are all pretty much equal.

I do know that some boats bow angle means that one actually fits better on the roller under the bail than the other. Has to do with the shank angle also. I suggest you do a cardboard cutout and try it as a fit on your Catalina before purchasing.

We have a friend who wanted and Rocna , but the Manson actually fit better on his roller


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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

Already working on the cardboard model of the Mantus shank. How it fits on the bow roller is important to me. I went to WM this evening to measure the Rocna, and I have concerns about how it would fit.

I haven't watched any of the videos on the Mantus website (and don't plan to, since there is less biased stuff out there to look at), so your warning is irrelevant to me. Steve Goodman has no connection with Mantus. Have you watched his compilation video? I think you would be impressed with how evenhanded he is. Although the abuse conditions that he chooses may be overkill.

As for your claims of over-representation of Mantus on this website, Steve Goodman doesn't post here AFAIK. The links to the video were on SA and on his YouTube page. And there's nothing sinister about Mantus being a sponsor here. Their ad dollars allow you and me to continue posting here for free.

I've read a lot of posts from the last few years, and it does seem that you have a little negativity toward Mantus. Maine Sail has complimented it, and described it as an evolutionary (not revolutionary) improvement over Rocna and Manson. From what I've seen, I think that's accurate, and Steve's compilation video show the same thing in both performance results and design details. It is not an exact knockoff as you have alleged - there are improvements in the balance of the anchor that appear to improve the resetting characteristics. The difference is not great enough to make anyone throw out their Rocna or Manson, but it is worthy of consideration for those of us who don't have any new gen anchor yet.

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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

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Mantus is a Sailnet sponsor so I don't think all the anchors get the same fair play on here.
One of the great features of forums is that most of the posts are written by people who are independent. Even if the site accepts advertising, this has no influence over the posts. There is no editor with an eye on the advertising dollar potentially influencing what is written, as can occur with magazine articles.

Manufacturers do contribute. Mostly their posts are very welcome, however, they sometimes post what is little more than advertising material. If the site is well run, as Sailnet is, it is clear who the manufacturers are and anyone reading their posts realizes that they are not presenting an unbiased opinion.

The independent nature of sailing forums is one of the reasons why they are such a useful resource.

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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Already working on the cardboard model of the Mantus shank. How it fits on the bow roller is important to me. I went to WM this evening to measure the Rocna, and I have concerns about how it would fit.

I haven't watched any of the videos on the Mantus website (and don't plan to, since there is less biased stuff out there to look at), so your warning is irrelevant to me. Steve Goodman has no connection with Mantus. Have you watched his compilation video? I think you would be impressed with how evenhanded he is. Although the abuse conditions that he chooses may be overkill.

As for your claims of over-representation of Mantus on this website, Steve Goodman doesn't post here AFAIK. The links to the video were on SA and on his YouTube page. And there's nothing sinister about Mantus being a sponsor here. Their ad dollars allow you and me to continue posting here for free.

I've read a lot of posts from the last few years, and it does seem that you have a little negativity toward Mantus. Maine Sail has complimented it, and described it as an evolutionary (not revolutionary) improvement over Rocna and Manson. From what I've seen, I think that's accurate, and Steve's compilation video show the same thing in both performance results and design details. It is not an exact knockoff as you have alleged - there are improvements in the balance of the anchor that appear to improve the resetting characteristics. The difference is not great enough to make anyone throw out their Rocna or Manson, but it is worthy of consideration for those of us who don't have any new gen anchor yet.
If you read CAREFULLY I have a Mantus anchor .

So how does that equate to my so called bias against Mantus

Course what do I know I have both a Rocna as well as a Mantus and see no perceptible difference. I have the right to that opinion and it is based on FIRSTHanD experience.

As I recall If you read carefully when Mantus first came on board they had posters who did no represent themselves as being part of the company when they posted. Since then they have been above board. As far as who sponsors the site....that is no concern of mine nor does it mean if they disssapear the site will disssapear. To me it's just important that when some posts they use it they identify that they are working for the company. In the beginning Mantus did not. Again that has been corrected.

My posts have always extolled the new gen anchor whether it's Mason or the TWO I have Rocna or Mantus. BTW I have a New Zealand Rocna so look back and figure out when I bought that and how long I have used it and believe in the new gen design.


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post #108 of 135 Old 08-20-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

I purchased a Manson Supreme five years ago but returned it to WM because the tip interfered with my mooring pennant when Hanging on the bow roller. I replaced it with a Rocna and although I am happy with it (I don't anchor much but it seems to set pretty well), I always wondered what that giving up more angle on the point did to it's setting/resetting ability.

Manson was not an option for me at the time because I could not find enough info outside of their own website.

It's always a trade off.
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post #109 of 135 Old 08-21-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
I'd always assumed the performance of the Mantus and Rocna were about the same until a boat (full time cruisers by the way, not new to it at all) came into the anchorage at St. George's, Grenada and took 10 tries to set their Mantus where we have only ever needed one there, with our Rocna. And this boat is all over the web touting the Mantus. Go figure.
Give me real world anchoring results over 'anchor testing' any day.
That wouldn't convince me of anything. We have spent numerous times in that anchorage trying to get our Rocna to set only to have it set hard and good by moving 100' in a different direction. That anchorage is full of dumped coral and other stuff from the dredging that took place years ago.

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post #110 of 135 Old 08-21-2016
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Re: Those new fangled Mantus Anchors..Bought One...Why

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Those videos are really eye-opening, especially the last one. It would seem that the 33 lb Rocna had more difficulty resetting, and for me resetting in clocking winds would be a key reason to buy one of these things (as demonstrated by wind graph of a 70kt clocking wind that I posted in another thread).

Of course, it's sort of apples-to-oranges comparing 33 lb to 45 lb. I'll have to review more info later tonight. Does he give any clues about design features that could be the reason for the difference in performance between Mantus and Rocna?

On a separate matter, I know the shank on the Mantus is narrower, but that would fit under my furler a little better, so narrower is not entirely a negative.

Also, I'm concerned about Rocna moving production to China. Is it possible that the people who swear by Rocna are basing their experience on a build quality that is no longer available in the new anchors? At least Mantus, wherever it is produced, is probably the same as it was when it was introduced. Although that's an assumption that I have not checked out, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I do remember some of the complaints when one of the anchor manufacturers moved to Asia (lower quality steel, etc), but I thought that was Manson Supreme, no Rocna. Is that right or wrong? Perhaps my memory is fuzzy. [EDIT: I confirmed that my memory was wrong. It was Rocna that tarnished their brand by moving to China and allegedly reducing the grade of their steel.]

I'll have to go re-read some more threads when I get some time. But that video has me leaning toward Mantus over Rocna at this point.
I don't think weight or size has anything to do with the resetting ability. In certain types of bottoms like clay or packed mud/shells, our Rocna comes up just packed solid with the bottom. If it ever pulled out, I don't think it would ever reset. Our Spade does the same thing. Every concave anchor does this, and it is a long-known issue with the older Bruce styles too.

We feel comfortable because in 8 years of full-time cruising in many types of bottoms, we have never experienced a condition where the boat moves so precisely and violently that a dislodging occurs. Instead, the anchor simply pivots in the bottom to assume a different position.

And we have been in many current changes and several sudden and immediate 50kt 180* wind shifts - where the boat/anchor geometry never precisely allows the anchor to dislodge and need to reset.

Like I said, we have both a Spade and a Rocna and for us the Rocna sets slightly more reliably in certain bottoms, and is a more general bottom anchor. The Spade is excellent - don't misunderstand. Probably the primary reason it is a secondary anchor for us is that it breaks down and stores easily.

Mark
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