Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice! - SailNet Community
Introduce Yourself Welcome to the Sailnet.com - The world's largest online sailing community! Tell us about yourself so we can get to know you.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to rafacond
Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Hello there,
I'm going to introduce myself first to this amazing community.
I'm a 27yo guy from São Paulo/Brazil who has quite a lot of experience as a backpacker.
I traveled all around Europe (Western)/Americas(US - Florida and East Coast, Canada - Toronto, Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Belize, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Chile). I've been to Egypt, Israel and India as well. And a lot of 4x4w hard terrain drive and rallying all around Brazil.
I like to do trekking, diving, camping, so I have quite the adventurous spirit.
Recently I've been to Abrolhos-BA which is a archipelago 45 miles off the coast. A place to see whales and do a bit of diving. The place was amazing, but what most caught my attention and made me think a lot about my life as a whole, was the fact that we sailed all the way from the dock to a marine reserve, where there is no hotels so we slept on a 32 feet sailboat over 3 nights of pure joy.
That was last year, but that life-changing experience made me realize i want to dedicate my life to became a sailor.
Most non-brazilians probrably don't know Amyr Klink, he has been quite the influence on me since i was a little boy. His adventures include going to Brazil to Africa on a Rowboat called "lampada" and the circumnavigation around the Antarctic, back in the 80's when all of it was potentially life-threatening.
So, I'm financially comfortable (not enough to just trow money away), I have a fixed income from investments in real-state. And i have a savings account, so together with the money I can get from selling my car, I can buy a blue water ocean cruiser to enjoy with my friends and family.
Buying the boat in Brazil is not a possibility, with an average of 40%VAT over imported products and the cost of shipping it from Europe or North America, it would make it financially impossible.
The good news is I have Portuguese citizenship, that means I can buy the boat in Europe/North America, register under Portuguese flag, using my relatives address, and bring it to Brazil.
I already looked up a sailing school in Croatia that will teach both basic/advanced skills, Navigation sailing and then I plan on training around the Mediterranean/Black Sea for 6 months before venturing into open ocean.
I'll start the the course ASAP with ultra-sailing in Croatia, so my departure is due to middle of the spring season.

So now is when I start asking for help.

First and foremost: My budget starts at US$ 250.000,00 and can't go over much
Equipment-specific related to the boat I should start looking for:
1. <42ft. or <50ft. keeping in mind possible severe weather conditions and long therm storage. Keel type?
2. Rig Configuration, what kind of gear I should look for? Winches: Electronic? User-friendly?
3. Engine Power and fuel consumption (assuming its a diesel) => Independent Power Generator? Possible upgrade to solar panel and/or wind turbine?
4. Central Air Conditioner? (I do want the comfort, and some places around this tropical country is a living hell.)
5. Safety equipment?
6. Easy docking?
7. Nav. Standard equipment? Radar/VHF/Auto-pilot and so on...
8. Bow thruster?
9. Holding tanks/fuel capacity?
10. Water Maker?
11. Special anti-fouling painting for endurance possibly over a year w/o maintenance?
Whatever else I might be forgetting...

Other aspects to consider:
I don't intend to spend nothing more with decoration/repairs/refurbishment.
I have time to come up with a list of good deals, since the ship is due to be bought in September.
I would also prefer the "owner layouts" prioritizing space and comfort over sheer passenger capacity.
Perfect for me:
1 Master en-suite cabin with head and 1 room with bunker beds, 1 washroom. 1 tiny office. Lots of space for the kitchen/saloon.
Keep in mind a lot of possible bad weather conditions and overall haul/equipment stress on the ship until I reach the maintenance dock here.
What's your take on this situation? I never faced this before nor met someone willing to do it. But it should work as long as I don't skip upgrading any essential long-range/safety equipment.

That'd be all for now.

I appreciate any extra information you can provide,
Yours sincerely, and thank y'all,
Rafa

Last edited by rafacond; 02-22-2014 at 01:58 PM.
rafacond is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 02-22-2014
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,488
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 17
     
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

First I'd look very carefully into the rules regarding your VAT.. can you bring a Portuguese boat into Brazil and avoid the VAT? Are there time limits to this idea? If you import this new-to-you boat are you subject to VAT anyhow? Governments tend to be pretty good about plugging those kinds of loopholes. I know that a Canadian can buy a boat offshore, register it as Canadian, and avoid taxes only as long as the boat is never brought 'home'.

That's a healthy budget for a relatively recent, well found 40 something footer, but there's almost no such thing as a used boat that 'needs' nothing. Even 5 year old electronics will soon be outdated.

Sounds like at least one Atlantic crossing is envisioned, but will off shore voyaging be the boat's primary use? That can affect boat type decisions, and the decision whether to sail or ship it to Brazil.

Have you plugged your 'wish list' parameters into Yachtworld? that's a good place to start.

Something like this:

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to rafacond
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Regarding the VAT, yes, I can avoid paying it if I don't register it here and use it as a foreigner (under my Portuguese I.D and passport), that might have some repercussion in terms of insurance, but abusive taxes will no longer be a problem.
My plan is to go to Cape Verde (off the coast of Africa), leaving from Algarve-Portugal, then I'd sail to Fernando de Noronha, that's the tricky part, the rest is pretty much within motor-sailing range. But then again at this time is all a wild guess.
yatchworld.com seems to have what I'm looking for, but since I'm aiming for ships that are no older than 5 years, my options are much more limited. And I do need some expensive extra gear as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks
All the help is welcomed
rafacond is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 Old 02-22-2014
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,488
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 17
     
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Here's a revised search, 5 yrs old or newer

2009 Boats For Sale

Much shorter list!!

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to rafacond
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

I have to restrict my search to Europe. (Or if I buy it on the East Coast I'd have to endure 2 cross ocean voyages with no maintenance/dry docking for a very long time)
I'm chatting with a guy now advising me to aim for 50ft+.
He said bigger is safer when it comes to dealing with severe weather and rogue waves.

Last edited by rafacond; 02-22-2014 at 01:45 PM.
rafacond is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 02-22-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,261
Thanks: 10
Thanked 55 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Rafa, welcome.

You've asked lots of questions. Many are a matter of personal preference, particulary in types of boats, how much you want to concede in comfort to get speed, and vice-versa.

First, your training plan seems well-thought out, sailing school and 6 months in the Med and excellent way to start.

Now if it were me, I'd start with something smaller than 42 or 50 feet, especially if I'm going to singlehand a lot. You might start out buying something in the mid-30 foot range in the States, then make the coastal hops south to Brazil. Then back up to the States and trade up bigger?

I don't think I would start out with the ocean passage from Europe. But I'm a coastal guy anyway. And if you are going to sail way offshore, I would keep things simple, at least on your first boat, the fewer systems to fail, the better. No air conditioning, simple electronics, no in-mast furling for the main. Type of hull, keel type, and rig? The farther offshore, the more I want a full keel and shorter rig.

If you really want to start with that 50-footer, you will probably will be dealing with some complex (and very comfortable, when they work) systems. And you'll need more advice than i can give, my hands-on experience, at least in sailing, stops at about 42 feet.

Either way, welcome, keep asking, and good luck
nolatom is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to rafacond
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Thanks Nolatom! Sure I would start with a smaller vessel, specially because it would cost substantially less money to buy/insure/maintain, the problem is, I want to bring it to Brazil, and, for abusive VAT dodging purposes, I need to register it under a Portuguese flag using my Portuguese citizenship and relatives address. So sure it would be awesome if I could cross the Atlantic with a 30-40ft. But unfortunately it seems too dangerous, for what I've been advised so far (go for a 50ft+), bigger is safer dealing with severe weather and rogue waves.
I sure could use some of the help you can give me relating to safety gear though.
Thanks a million

Last edited by rafacond; 02-22-2014 at 02:17 PM.
rafacond is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 02-22-2014
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 3,112
Thanks: 20
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafacond View Post
Hello there,
I'm going to introduce myself first to this amazing community.
I'm a 27yo guy from São Paulo/Brazil who has quite a lot of experience as a backpacker.
I traveled all around Europe (Western)/Americas(US - Florida and East Coast, Canada - Toronto, Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Belize, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Chile). I've been to Egypt, Israel and India as well. And a lot of 4x4w hard terrain drive and rallying all around Brazil.
I like to do trekking, diving, camping, so I have quite the adventurous spirit.
Recently I've been to Abrolhos-BA which is a archipelago 45 miles off the coast. A place to see whales and do a bit of diving. The place was amazing, but what most caught my attention and made me think a lot about my life as a whole, was the fact that we sailed all the way from the dock to a marine reserve, where there is no hotels so we slept on a 32 feet sailboat over 3 nights of pure joy.
That was last year, but that life-changing experience made me realize i want to dedicate my life to became a sailor.
Most non-brazilians probrably don't know Amyr Klink, he has been quite the influence on me since i was a little boy. His adventures include going to Brazil to Africa on a Rowboat called "lampada" and the circumnavigation around the Antarctic, back in the 80's when all of it was potentially life-threatening.
So, I'm financially comfortable (not enough to just trow money away), I have a fixed income from investments in real-state. And i have a savings account, so together with the money I can get from selling my car, I can buy a blue water ocean cruiser to enjoy with my friends and family.
Buying the boat in Brazil is not a possibility, with an average of 40%VAT over imported products and the cost of shipping it from Europe or North America, it would make it financially impossible.
The good news is I have Portuguese citizenship, that means I can buy the boat in Europe/North America, register under Portuguese flag, using my relatives address, and bring it to Brazil.
I already looked up a sailing school in Croatia that will teach both basic/advanced skills, Navigation sailing and then I plan on training around the Mediterranean/Black Sea for 6 months before venturing into open ocean.
I'll start the the course ASAP with ultra-sailing in Croatia, so my departure is due to middle of the spring season.

So now is when I start asking for help.

First and foremost: My budget starts at US$ 250.000,00 and can't go over much
Equipment-specific related to the boat I should start looking for:
1. <42ft. or <50ft. keeping in mind possible severe weather conditions and long therm storage. Keel type?
2. Rig Configuration, what kind of gear I should look for? Winches: Electronic? User-friendly?
3. Engine Power and fuel consumption (assuming its a diesel) => Independent Power Generator? Possible upgrade to solar panel and/or wind turbine?
4. Central Air Conditioner? (I do want the comfort, and some places around this tropical country is a living hell.)
5. Safety equipment?
6. Easy docking?
7. Nav. Standard equipment? Radar/VHF/Auto-pilot and so on...
8. Bow thruster?
9. Holding tanks/fuel capacity?
10. Water Maker?
11. Special anti-fouling painting for endurance possibly over a year w/o maintenance?
Whatever else I might be forgetting...

Other aspects to consider:
I don't intend to spend nothing more with decoration/repairs/refurbishment.
I have time to come up with a list of good deals, since the ship is due to be bought in September.
I would also prefer the "owner layouts" prioritizing space and comfort over sheer passenger capacity.
Perfect for me:
1 Master en-suite cabin with head and 1 room with bunker beds, 1 washroom. 1 tiny office. Lots of space for the kitchen/saloon.
Keep in mind a lot of possible bad weather conditions and overall haul/equipment stress on the ship until I reach the maintenance dock here.
What's your take on this situation? I never faced this before nor met someone willing to do it. But it should work as long as I don't skip upgrading any essential long-range/safety equipment.

That'd be all for now.

I appreciate any extra information you can provide,
Yours sincerely, and thank y'all,
Rafa
Stay under 41 feet. 51 is huge, far biggger than you need. Keep it simple ,you can add toys later, if you feel the need.
Brent Swain is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 02-22-2014
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,488
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 17
     
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Many ocean passages are safely made with well found boats under 40 feet.. IMO there's little reason to go to 50+ unless you need a lot of space. The on-going costs of maintaining a 38 footer would probably be half that of a 50 footer.

Short handed, unless you get into more complex equipment, smaller has to be better to a point.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 02-22-2014 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Send a message via Skype™ to rafacond
Re: Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice!

Ok, Performance Cruising instead of size.
But, what should be my priorities? What would you consider absolutely essential in terms of safety, range and comfort?
Go for a hypothetical worst case scenario where I would have to endure a storm because I wasn't fast enough. What is the best boat/keel/gear for it?
Thanks again Btw
rafacond is offline  
Reply

Tags
advice needed , equip , help needed , long distance , new member , ocean voyaging

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello! Newcomer here looking for advice! rafacond General Discussion (sailing related) 3 02-22-2014 02:40 PM
Advice for newcomer to BC Armchairsailor2 Introduce Yourself 16 06-20-2011 12:56 PM
Info on a newcomer shieek Introduce Yourself 0 07-04-2009 09:37 PM
Newcomer to Sailnet albebonn Announcements and Suggestions Box 0 07-01-2009 09:58 AM
Newcomer to sailing wolfman Introduce Yourself 1 07-22-2008 08:32 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome