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post #31 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by fallard View Post
When we got back to Stonington Harbor, we saw an overturned 24’ catamaran. That boat had pitchpoled—inside the breakwater—5 minutes after our cruising class start. Maybe they were lucky that they didn’t get caught on the ocean side of Fishers Island and had rescue close at hand.

My vote goes to monohull for obvious reasons.
For the most part, multihulls do not tip over; people tip them over!
Also, if one is doing something like a circumnavigation, should one encounter that terrible "perfect storm", on a multi, it is always comforting to think that should one capsize the vessel, at least she won't sink, and you have food and water available until rescue.
Same storm, same scenario and your monohull could sink.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #32 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
"Lassiegirl"
9 posts to "God and sailing" - where she shows herself to be a complete lunatic.
Besides changing her name I think she removed some of her greatest hits on that thread. I seem to remember her saying the fact she prayed each of the four times she went offshore (out of the harbor) and because of that the boat and crew made it back safely is proof that God exists.

I envisioned Captain and Crew being forced to pray each day, irrelevant of their beliefs to ensure the boat does not sink. Note to self regardless of how tempting it sounds ignore any advertisement for 60 foot catamarans looking for crew.
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post #33 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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For the most part, multihulls do not tip over; people tip them over!
Also, if one is doing something like a circumnavigation, should one encounter that terrible "perfect storm", on a multi, it is always comforting to think that should one capsize the vessel, at least she won't sink, and you have food and water available until rescue.
Same storm, same scenario and your monohull could sink.
What's the chance a storm that can roll a monohull and sink it does not destroy a catamaran? Does a cat become so stable upside down it becomes impervious the havoc above?

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post #34 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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What's the chance a storm that can roll a monohull and sink it does not destroy a catamaran? Does a cat become so stable upside down it becomes impervious the havoc above?
I haven't been there on anything bigger than a Hobie 16, but I'm assuming a cat becomes very stable upside down. Much more so than the other way around, especially if her rig is there. Being in a liferaft and tethered to an upside down cat in a bad storm, might be survivable. Being out there in just the liferaft might be much less so.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #35 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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What's the chance a storm that can roll a monohull and sink it does not destroy a catamaran? Does a cat become so stable upside down it becomes impervious the havoc above?
The same physics that keep a catamaran upright, keep it upside down.

It's a function of length of the lever arm (beam) and the force of gravity acting down, the force of bouyancy acting up and the height of the centre of gravity.

An upside down cat has basically the same beam as a rightway up cat. Likely a lower centre of gravity (due to the superstructure being underwater). Likely a greater force of gravity acting down on each hull due to water ingress. The big variable is the centre of bouyancy acting upwards as the hulls slowly fill with water.

I think, at first, a beamy cat should be pretty stable upside down and possibly become less stable over time as the hulls fill with water.

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post #36 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
For the most part, multihulls do not tip over; people tip them over!
Also, if one is doing something like a circumnavigation, should one encounter that terrible "perfect storm", on a multi, it is always comforting to think that should one capsize the vessel, at least she won't sink, and you have food and water available until rescue.
Same storm, same scenario and your monohull could sink.
You are talking hypothetically. You might be right, but I’d like to see the statistics before staking a position. Meanwhile the discussion is about preferences and opinions, which is fine. The discussion might be pretty dull if everything were black and white.
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post #37 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
As I get older (and crankier) I find that I don't have the patience to deal with either trolls or dolts. Posting such drivel will get you onto my "Ignore List" pretty quickly, as it did with Lassiegirl.

[EDIT]Lest you think that I was too quick to cut Lassiegirl loose, let's take a look at her contributions to SailNet. Remember this is SailNet, the forum where we discuss things relative to Sailing:
9 posts to "Alright, I hope I don't get clobbered here" - an introduction thread, in which she seems to get off on the right foot.
10 posts to "Raw Vegans?" - in which she gets preachy about how her vegan diet is superior to "meat eaters" diet.
1 post to "Newcomer to Phuket (and Langkawi)" - she would like to visit that area.
9 posts to "God and sailing" - where she shows herself to be a complete lunatic.
4 posts to this thread.

I would have hated to have to spend any time with her, or worse, be stuck with her as a student.
[/EDIT]

I believe that SailNet will be a better forum with members that can post intelligent SAILING RELATED questions/comments/observations.
Starting with your last part, this has always been my problem with most forums and the clique mentality that seems to rule them. How can a newb "post intelligent SAILING RELATED questions/comments/observations" when they don't really know anything? And who defines "intelligent"? What it really comes down to is their attitude in the face of the "advice" they're getting from long-time members. Do these members approve of that attitude? And if not, what do they do? Ignore and move on?

This chick's first post in this thread was a perfectly intelligent question as far as I'm concerned...for a newb.

I looked through some of the other threads you mentioned and I certainly didn't see where she was anymore a "troll" or a "dolt" or a "lunatic" (your words, not mine) than anyone else posting in those obviously contentious threads. You'll notice I wasn't one of them BTW (counter to recent sentiments on "bullying").

When I first came to SN, I cut my teeth in OT - actually in a very sailing-related thread there called FightClub For Sailors. I don't ever go to SNOT anymore - and I was NEVER into PWRG. It's all boring as hell compared to sailing. So I just stick to the sailing threads now.

I think one of the problems around here is that SNOT posters tend to bring that angst out into the general forum - chasing each other through these sailing threads and piling it on. And I don't think that is good at all for the forum.

So, maybe, as you say, everyone around here is just getting old and cranky. But that's no excuse. Newbs should be able to post without getting jumped. Period. If one doesn't like their attitude - move on. It's simple...unless one has something to prove.

As for catamarans, for those of you interested in sailing - most of them sail very well if you know how to sail them. You can read about that from a few people who actually own them here...

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...g-designs.html

That's where I'm headed.

Later.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 05-16-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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post #38 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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As for catamarans, for those of you interested in sailing - most of them sail very well if you know how to sail them. .
Nikki and I met and spent a bit of time with a professional ocean racer several years back, who sailed cats exclusively. In one conversation he stated that if he could find a cat that would tack at 120 degrees or less he'd be the happiest man alive.
So really, I guess it all depends on what your definition of sailing "very well" is.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #39 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by capta View Post
Nikki and I met and spent a bit of time with a professional ocean racer several years back, who sailed cats exclusively. In one conversation he stated that if he could find a cat that would tack at 120 degrees or less he'd be the happiest man alive.
So really, I guess it all depends on what your definition of sailing "very well" is.
Our boat is overloaded and underperforming - by a lot - and we can tack better than 120*.

Most of the charter cats will tack better than 120* without issue. Maybe all of them. Many of the common charter models will do much better. Any board cat like Catana, Outremer, Schionning, White, etc will tack to wind better than most monohulls.

If the point of contention was 100*, I'd be more acceptable of his statement.

I wonder how many cruising monohulls tack less than 120*?

Mark

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post #40 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Starting with your last part, this has always been my problem with most forums and the clique mentality that seems to rule them. How can a newb "post intelligent SAILING RELATED questions/comments/observations" when they don't really know anything? And who defines "intelligent"? What it really comes down to is their attitude in the face of the "advice" they're getting from long-time members. Do these members approve of that attitude? And if not, what do they do? Ignore and move on?

This chick's first post in this thread was a perfectly intelligent question as far as I'm concerned...for a newb.

I looked through some of the other threads you mentioned and I certainly didn't see where she was anymore a "troll" or a "dolt" or a "lunatic" (your words, not mine) than anyone else posting in those obviously contentious threads. You'll notice I wasn't one of them BTW (counter to recent sentiments on "bullying").

When I first came to SN, I cut my teeth in OT - actually in a very sailing-related thread there called FightClub For Sailors. I don't ever go to SNOT anymore - and I was NEVER into PWRG. It's all boring as hell compared to sailing. So I just stick to the sailing threads now.

I think one of the problems around here is that SNOT posters tend to bring that angst out into the general forum - chasing each other through these sailing threads and piling it on. And I don't think that is good at all for the forum.

So, maybe, as you say, everyone around here is just getting old and cranky. But that's no excuse. Newbs should be able to post without getting jumped. Period. If one doesn't like their attitude - move on. It's simple...unless one has something to prove.

As for catamarans, for those of you interested in sailing - most of them sail very well if you know how to sail them. You can read about that from a few people who actually own them here...

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...g-designs.html

That's where I'm headed.

Later.
Sorry Smack, but no. Newbs CAN ask questions, and they will be replied to. However the Newbs question should at least show that the Newb has done SOME homework on their own, or they risk annoying the people who could most help them. I spend my weekends teaching sailing to people that want to learn and are willing to make the investment of their time and money to make it happen.

"Catamaran or Monohull - which is best?" and "I am a 67 year old woman, with no sailing experience" and then copping an attitude to the replies: "There are obviously some really nasty hateful arrogant people on this site. I would not recommend this site to my worst enemy." Uh, not that I care but I would advise her to - GTFOH! (sorry, I can't see her posts, I only see other's quotes from her posts)

Lassiegirl asked a question which has been asked in several variations elsewhere in SailNet and in many other forums. Had she bothered to spend an hour or two reading up on the topic she would have found a lot of specific answers to questions about the differences between a mono and multi-hull. She also could have learned enough to have posed intelligent questions and not have come across as a dolt. But no, it was much easier for her to just post a stupid question and then chastise people that tried to help. - I admit that I was not one of the helpful few, but I did not start throwing stones at her while she was here either. I simply decided "dolt" and ignored her.

She was advised by Capta, Mark, pdqaltair, RegisteredUser, and SailingUphill (possibly others) to do some research. She apparently took offense to this and got snippy. She reminds me of Jennifer Appel in this respect (I see that she's up to $40!). Getting snippy in the face of good advice from respected posters that are trying to help you is just plain stupid. I learned long ago that ignorance can be fixed, stupidity cannot.

I am sure that the folks over at Sailing-Anarchy and Cruisers-Forum have been much more gentle and patient with people who want to be spoon-fed instructions on how to spend their money. I don't. Instead, I simply throw 'em on my ignore list, and celebrate when they leave. I hope that someday Lassiegirl and Bwalker42 meetup and sail away together - with their dogs...


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Last edited by eherlihy; 05-16-2018 at 09:17 PM.
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