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post #41 of 53 Old 05-16-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Sorry Smack, but no. Newbs CAN ask questions, and they will be replied to. However the Newbs question should at least show that the Newb has done SOME homework on their own, or they risk annoying the people who could most help them....
This is as far as I got. You need to understand, herli, that forums ARE the homework. And newbs don't owe us long-time members a damn thing. If one doesn't want to answer a question from a newb - then don't. If one gets annoyed at the way someone is asking the question - then move on.

You can simply look at the web stats to see that most traffic to SN comes from searches. THIS is the homework newbs are doing to get here. If they then have to kiss the boots of certain people who might get annoyed at their questions when they arrive - then this is just a boy's club - not a welcoming forum.

I found SN 10 years ago - when I was starting out in sailing - through a Google search on whatever topic I was looking into. I knew absolutely nothing about sailing other than it was the coolest, most intriguing and mystical thing I'd ever looked into (out of LOTS of outdoor sports and hobbies I've enjoyed).

Lots of people here did demand I lick their boots when I began poking around and got very annoyed when I heartily refused. Thankfully, there were many other sailors here who didn't need or demand that kind of "reverence" and answered most every question I had. That was really cool.

I hope SN can be a place where anyone can ask questions without worrying about annoying someone or, worse, being jumped.

People wonder why sailing is dying? Just look at the boots.

PS - You're certainly throwing stones now.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 05-16-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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post #42 of 53 Old 05-17-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Starting with your last part, this has always been my problem with most forums and the clique mentality that seems to rule them. How can a newb "post intelligent SAILING RELATED questions/comments/observations" when they don't really know anything? And who defines "intelligent"? What it really comes down to is their attitude in the face of the "advice" they're getting from long-time members. Do these members approve of that attitude? And if not, what do they do? Ignore and move on?

This chick's first post in this thread was a perfectly intelligent question as far as I'm concerned...for a newb.

I looked through some of the other threads you mentioned and I certainly didn't see where she was anymore a "troll" or a "dolt" or a "lunatic" (your words, not mine) than anyone else posting in those obviously contentious threads. You'll notice I wasn't one of them BTW (counter to recent sentiments on "bullying").

When I first came to SN, I cut my teeth in OT - actually in a very sailing-related thread there called FightClub For Sailors. I don't ever go to SNOT anymore - and I was NEVER into PWRG. It's all boring as hell compared to sailing. So I just stick to the sailing threads now.

I think one of the problems around here is that SNOT posters tend to bring that angst out into the general forum - chasing each other through these sailing threads and piling it on. And I don't think that is good at all for the forum.

So, maybe, as you say, everyone around here is just getting old and cranky. But that's no excuse. Newbs should be able to post without getting jumped. Period. If one doesn't like their attitude - move on. It's simple...unless one has something to prove.

As for catamarans, for those of you interested in sailing - most of them sail very well if you know how to sail them. You can read about that from a few people who actually own them here...

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-r...g-designs.html

That's where I'm headed.

Later.
So now we should take advice on how to act in a forum from you.....that’s rich.
Maybe some one new here who doesn’t know your history will beleive in that

You’ve been banned from forums due to the way you ridiculed and treated others
You call people who disagree with you intellectually, a “posse”, used negatively
You even just now called the woman poster a “chick” kind of chauvinistic did not you think
You singlehandedly are responsible for pushing a number of really helpful posters off of Sailnet
There is always controversy surrounding your postings, course you blame tha on a conspiracy of some sort

Come on now...please don’t advise us to follow the way you act toward others.

If you were so concerned about newbies in the forums you would state your opinion and not try and ram in down others throats with the war and peace multiple postings. You should be the last one to tell others how to act in a forum

Attacking new posters or veteran posters is not a good way to go. Most sailors I have met are very willing to share their knowledge. Almost all SN members I have met in person ( the number is in the hundreds) are pretty cool people. This includes long time posters and newbies .

The group from the Chesapeake is a very divergent opinionated crowd. What I observe is when they get together in person, there is no pretensiveness and they are glad to see or help each other. This group is a good example. You often read encouraging posts and sharing of info in the Chessie thread and no one person tries to dominate the conversations. There are newbies...and experienced sailors in the group. No one makes fun of the newbies or characterizes the experienced sailors as “old and cranky”

It is because of that I still stay engaged in Sailnet.
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post #43 of 53 Old 05-17-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

Smack, You are free to enter into forum posting debates with anyone whom you wish to do so. Just as I am free to put dolts and trolls on my ignore list.

I don't see this as throwing stones... it's more like celebrating her departure. Hopefully, newbs will read this thread and learn something from it.


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post #44 of 53 Old 05-17-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

I hope SN can be a place where anyone can ask questions without worrying about annoying someone or, worse, being jumped.

People wonder why sailing is dying? Just look at the boots.

PS - You're certainly throwing stones now.
Are you here for the sailing discussion?

It feels like your prime objective here is to create discord, question other peoples opinions or the way they state them, with the primary goal of getting others banned. This can't be fun for you anymore.
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post #45 of 53 Old 05-17-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

I was not looking to poke Smack with a stick, but Smack's vehement defense of Lassiegirl and the above posts aroused my curiosity... so I did very little digging.

Ban Stick | SMACKTALK!
Quote:
Banned Again!
Well, I’ve been banned yet again from another sailing forum. I think I might see a pattern here.
...
Quote:
SN [SailNet] is my primary hangout. It’s got plenty of spice but not enough to make you hide it from the kids. It’s like a nice community pub where real sailors hang out. It’s also one of the best-moderated sites out there – bar none. How do I know? Well, I’m proud to say I’ve been banned from SN three times in my illustrious career there (stories for another time); bannings that, for the most part, I absolutely deserved. But, more importantly, they were handled with integrity and transparency. No behind-the-scenes crap, which I can’t stand.

Much of the credit for this integrity-based, great moderation goes to a long-time member and moderator there named Cruisingdad. Over the years, he’s taken a tremendous amount of heat over my antics..but he has ALWAYS been fair, even when banning me. That’s a very rare thing in forums.
Smack, I have NEVER been banned from ANY site. My primary reason for participating in the various forums in which I am active is to repay the help that I have received through them. I also have tried to pay my dues, and be respectful of the people that I was asking to help me out. Part of that respect was shown by not wasting their time with "what kind of boat should I buy" threads.

I have respect for you as someone that defended me from, of all people Maine Sail, when as a newb, I had asked if a broker was being a jerk (he was). I can't seem to find that thread, or I would post the link. (Google just decided that I am posting too many queries!)

I had honestly intended to send this to you as a PM out of respect for you. I am not looking to start an internet fight with anyone. However, as I read on in your blog;
Quote:
...
Well, if you know me at all, you know that I’m not exactly a “shrinking violet”. I LOVE a good, clean forum fight.
...
Also, as is pretty well documented in my illustrious forum career, I hate the whole Private Message thing, or hidden sections within forums that only some members can access, etc. – any place where you can be one person in public and another in private. I’m NEVER afraid to tell you something to your face in the forum where everyone can see it. Because if stuff is hidden, it WILL be misused...
I wanted to test the moderation. What was behind that notorious curtain of CF moderation? The best way to find out – is to push it.
So, here you go.

What does one call an entity that intentionally pushes the limits on an internet forum with the intent of testing moderation, and arguing over trivial issues?


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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
What does one call an entity that intentionally pushes the limits on an internet forum with the intent of testing moderation, and arguing over trivial issues?
This comes to mind.

https://youtu.be/ZtYU87QNjPw

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZtYU87QNjPw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

I love the Holy Grail, but I see it more like this;

Newbie Trolling:
As its name suggests, newbie trolling, is the act of instilling hostility and annoyance by posing as an inexperienced newcomer and posting redundant questions to solicit reactions from those who're more experienced and genuinely willing to help. The tried-and-true practice of "playing dumb" has been also observed in the form of grammar trolling, which entails intentionally misspelling a word or a phrase in order to solicit reactions or corrections from those unable to tolerate faulty grammar, sometimes known as Grammar Nazis.



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post #48 of 53 Old 05-17-2018
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
I have respect for you as someone that defended me from, of all people Maine Sail, when as a newb, I had asked if a broker was being a jerk (he was). I can't seem to find that thread, or I would post the link.
I don't remember that situation, but I'm glad you felt someone had your back. But see, that's the rub. I'm pretty consistent in my defense of newbs. I always have been. But the thing is if I do so, I will inevitably piss off the long-time member(s) I'm encouraging to chill out.

To the newb, I'm a hero. To the long-time member(s), I'm a "troll"...as you're seeing play out here, right now.

I just try to keep things fair. That's what I'm talking about in that post of mine you pulled. I'm always willing to step into a "fight" if I see people being cliquish and hypocritical or running rough-shod over newbs - regardless of who they are. That was the whole point of that CF exercise you've pulled that single quote from. And remember, mods there were dismissed because of their actions in that whole debacle. So let's keep things in context.

herli, I simply think you're out of line with the things you're saying here about this newb (judging by this thread), and - more importantly - your expectations of what newbs should do or expect when posting on a forum regarding something they know little about.

If you benefited from someone having your back early on, you should certainly consider the height of the bar you're setting for others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
Hopefully, newbs will read this thread and learn something from it.
I have no doubt they will.

PS - No worries on the PM thing. I meant what I said. I have no problem having these discussions in public. I think it's much better for everyone.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 05-18-2018 at 12:18 PM.
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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
I was not looking to poke Smack with a stick, but Smack's vehement defense of Lassiegirl and the above posts aroused my curiosity... so I did very little digging.

Ban Stick | SMACKTALK!

...


Smack, I have NEVER been banned from ANY site. My primary reason for participating in the various forums in which I am active is to repay the help that I have received through them. I also have tried to pay my dues, and be respectful of the people that I was asking to help me out. Part of that respect was shown by not wasting their time with "what kind of boat should I buy" threads.

I have respect for you as someone that defended me from, of all people Maine Sail, when as a newb, I had asked if a broker was being a jerk (he was). I can't seem to find that thread, or I would post the link. (Google just decided that I am posting too many queries!)

I had honestly intended to send this to you as a PM out of respect for you. I am not looking to start an internet fight with anyone. However, as I read on in your blog; So, here you go.

What does one call an entity that intentionally pushes the limits on an internet forum with the intent of testing moderation, and arguing over trivial issues?
Simple answer.........A BULLY


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Re: Catamaran or Monohull- which is best?

Amusing

You trying to position yourself as the defender of the newbie......fighting the big old bad multi posters like SV Auspicious and countless others. In your own words you call yourself a hero.

I remember when I was a newbie here , ridiculed by your sarcasm. It’s completely diengenous to characterize many of the loyal posters on here as being against the newbies. There is nothing further from the truth where I have seen many posters reach out and help other sailors on here. I gave SPECIFIC examples in the Chesapeake thread , which Are carried on in many other threads by many posters on here.

By your own words ehrlily posted you have no problem wasting many of our time challenging the moderators or people with more knowledge than you justfor the sake of testing their limits. Is this what a hero does?

Many others on here help fellow SN tangibly. Helping them buy boats, fixing issues on their boats, giving advice on sailing problems, sharing places they visit .

These are the people you now choose to continue to attack. Why? Why would you attack contributors on this site who help other sailors? Why would you llump them in a group and pit newbies against older posters here? That’s not cool. What becomes apparent is you want to cause the chaos? In fact you take pride in pushing mods and you have to assume other posters to the limit. You seem to take pride in being banned from other sites. This by your own postings.

Your biggest contribution to date...fight club and pushing moderators to the limit. You have pushed at JeffH a moderator. Now it’s clear why. You intended to do that. I don’t know of any other sailors on here who do that.

I will not shut up about what you are doing. You are ruining this site with your behavior. You attack good sailors who are contributing posters on this site as you did the sites that banned you. You characterize them as a group...a posse ....old....and pit them against others. In fact you encourage others to be against them. You can’t hide behind that this is just your opinion. You incite the chaos. You purposely by your own admission push the limits and make many feel uncomfortable on here. Is this what the fellowship of sailing is?

I was always taught you must turn and face a bully. You don’t put them on ignore and pretend they aren’t there. You need to start your own site. It was so peAceful here when you were gone.


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