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post #1 of 27 Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Debating CS27 or C&C 27

Hi all

I've introduced myself a couple of weeks back and started doing some research into "starter" under 30ft boats for day sailing and perhaps a weekend camping.

I always seem to come right back to the CS27 and C&C27 with occasional peeks at the C&C30. I have never sailed/owned a boat that size(only a 15ft O'Day Beaver) and I'll be getting my sailing certificate in June.. I understand that one would naturally progress from a tiny sailboat onto larger and larger boat however knowing myself, I'll be annoyed with how impractical the tiny cabin-less boats are..

Any advice is greatly appreciated!
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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

I think between the CS and C&C it really comes down to which one you like better. Pretty similar boats. The extra 3 feet you occasionally look adds a lot of boat which will also increase costs. Not much you can learn on a 30 that you won't on a 27.

If your plan is really to learn on this boat and go to a larger one, I'd steer you to the 27s. If the idea of an upgrade down the line is less certian, I'd think more about the 30's.

Is your sailing ground Lake of the Woods?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilCarlson View Post

Is your sailing ground Lake of the Woods?
Yes the Lake of the Woods will be my pond for several years to come. Looks to be full of opportunities for good day sailing and camping.

I do plan on going up in size once I feel confident in handling the 27

Are there many things to be very mindful of looking at used late 70's 80's cs or cc 27? Other than the obvious water stains, soft spots(which areas), engine mounts, bilge area?

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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

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Originally Posted by grenlin87 View Post
I understand that one would naturally progress from a tiny sailboat onto larger and larger boat however knowing myself, I'll be annoyed with how impractical the tiny cabin-less boats are..
Not necessarily no, there is often some up and down in size until folks find the right size for them. Personally, a 30 foot boat would be pushing the limits of what I would want on an inland lake.

As far as CS27 vs C&C 27, I would pick whichever one is in better condition and to a lesser extent which ever one is better equipped.
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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

Whether one needs to start that small and walk up the ladder in such small increments, is really dependent on their aptitude for the sport. Not all learn at the same pace.

As an analogy, private pilots start in small two seat piston propeller trainers, then move to four seats, then maybe some complex attributes, like retractable landing gear, etc, etc. Most never make it far enough up the curve to sit in a turbine driven propeller aircraft, let alone a jet.

Contrast that to the military trainee, who's first ride is a turbine driven prop (they never fly the equivalent of our sailing dinghies) and are solo in a jet in fewer hours than most private pilots take to first graduate to retractable landing gear. However, the military is brutal on filtering aptitude. You get washed out, if it doesn't come relatively easy (compared to most anyway).

Personally, I see no practical difference in learning to sail a 27 from a 30. I'm not bragging up my aptitude, only suggesting the slow walk up the ladder can be exaggerated. It's really up to you.


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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by grenlin87 View Post
Are there many things to be very mindful of looking at used late 70's 80's cs or cc 27? Other than the obvious water stains, soft spots(which areas), engine mounts, bilge area?
Yes. All of the above and more. Here is something to read that will give yuo some more ideas about that. Marine Survey 101, pre-survey inspection There is much more information out there.

In general as I don't know either boat particularly well, but I own a 1976 North Star 26 which is similar in design and build to the C&C.

Good signs: Boat is sailed regularly. Is clean and obviously well maintained (Owner has records of professional services, etc...) Motors that have sat for a while can be ok but can develop problems, and unused boats decay faster than active boats.

Important things to look for that may be deal-breakers: Evidence of water intrusion, particularly around the chain plates. Condition of the main bulkhead at the chain plates, if it's rotted, it's a big job to fix.

Keel bolts, bilge frames/stringers: Keel bolts and rods should be free of excess corrosion. Replacing the rods (J-hooks) on a lead keel is expensive, often exceeding the value of the boat.

Damage to the keel indicating a hard grounding. This can lead to all sorts of invisible problems due to the impact or inadequate repairs.

Stringers and frames under the floor should be Fiberglass or glass encased wood. Look for signs of water intrusion and rot, particularly under the compression post. My boat had an exposed wood stringer under the compression post that had rotted away so completely that it took a while for me to realize it had ever existed. It was a major structural problem I was fortunate to be able to repair. If it's a keel stepped mast, check the condition of the mast step, possibly metallic and corroded.

Electrical: Make sure you understand what you have. If it's all professionally wired, understand the condition and what maintence you will need to do, if it's a DIY ratnest understand what needs to be replaced. Most boat fires are electrical, and boats tend to burn fast, which is hard on the crew.

In any case, the boat will teach you boat systems. Just remember, the boat will teach you at the boat's pace.

Hopefully someone with specific experience on these models will chime in. Good luck!
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post #7 of 27 Old 1 Week Ago
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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

I own a CS 27.

The C & C will most likely be faster, but I'm not sure if that matters really. Both are well made boats. The CS is the sturdier of the two and weighs more. Some also come with 4' draft, (lead), which may be nice for your lake.

All CS's come with a diesel engine, most c & c's do not.

Cs's have heads with holding tanks, some c & c's have porta potties.

The CS will generally be a bit cheaper to purchase, I have no idea why prices are lower.

It's a simple boat, and one you can bash about without worry.

I'm sure their are advantages of the C & C, I'm just not that familiar enough with the boat to know them.

As always, buy the one in better condition.

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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

From some visits aboard both models, the CS Yacht looks to be better built and a bit roomier inside. It's a Ray Wall (sp?) design which is a great pedigree.
Some C&C designs from the 70's later had much-improved rudders designed for them, and this popular model might be one.
As hinted at here, condition and a good survey will tell the tale. It's been enough decades that you will likely be re-bedding ports and all hardware.
Not sure how the hull-to-deck joint was done on the CS, but it was a full-overlap (very strong) on the C&C.

Lots to assess, and it's nice to be choosing between decently designed boats !
Keep us posted...


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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

There is no fundamental difference in skill required to operate a 30' compared to a 27' - there's just not that much difference in size. A big 27' like the C&C is the same "size" as a small 30'. The old C&C 27' and 30' from the 70's have to be seen side by side to tell the difference.

All the boats you listed are good boats - pick the best one at the best price and don't worry about if you can handle it. FWIW many people regard the CS boats as being a tick better constructed than C&C's.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: Debating CS27 or C&C 27

Good advice here on condition of the two choices. Both are well made boats.

I am partial to the build of C&C s as they have developed and made continuous improvements over the years
C&C still exists though it has morphed being part of the Tartan cadre.

C&C are great handling boats in general. Precise exact steering, not sluggish.

Most C&C owners have bought them because the their overall competitiveness in speed. Their build quality not only physically, but their design.

Most C&C owners buy them because of the combination of speed but also comfort. Most C&Cs have found the perfect blend for the cruiser and the racer.

Build quality is evident as C&C are still sailing and in good condition 40-50 after they were first built. You will easily be able to resell it if you increase in size.

Lastly , because C&C is still a strong brand which has survived there is a robust well organized current C&C owners association and group. The website contains upgrades on each size as well as a network to work with on similar build issues and improvements..I suggest joining it before you decide on which boat you buy .

C&C Yachts - C&C Photo Album & Resource Center

If it is good condition....stay with the C&C


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