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serpa4 06-05-2016 09:48 PM

So much hate to new people.
 
So many videos and such calling new people all kinds of stuff. Seems like everyone keeps saying you shouldn't be allowed to sail (not to me) to all the beginners. Everyone, even experts have to have their 1st week on a boat. Shish, you have to learn some time. It's like instant hate when people see you've been sailing for anything less than 20 years.

I have my 1st day of sailing my boat coming this month (30' C&C 30). I'm graduating from a 15' potter sail boat at 400lbs to this 9,000 lbs beast. Not looking forward to all the hate everyone spews. I have just completed ASA 101, 103/104, but still nervous about it. I'll see if a dock hand at the marina will jump onboard for my 1st docking in a marina. Life has thus far been motoring onto my trailer with a motor that rotates 360 degrees. Backing up this 30' boat with not much effect/prop wash, is intimidating even though I didn't bash in the sailing instructor's beneteau 35 docking in 28-32 sustained wind.

Just a rant, no response required.

fryewe 06-05-2016 09:56 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Nervous, huh?

Nobody will laugh at you. We were all there once.

Uricanejack 06-05-2016 10:06 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I don't know why you feel the hate. I find most sailor friendly.

I do see a lot of negativity posted here by some who make it seam sailing is a dangerous game and you should never leave the dock in case you encounter sea monsters or dragons. It reflects on them not you.

looks like you are of to a good start and have found a really nice boat. Not everyone loves a C&C but I have one and they are really nice boats to sail. You took a course to learn the basics. You are well prepared.

Once you get on your boat take her out and get comfortable. If you feel you need help ask for it I'm sure someone will oblige.

Good luck have fun. Wave at other boats most will wave back.
I sail on the other side of the continent but would give you a friendly wave if you pass by.

MikeOReilly 06-05-2016 10:23 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Not sure what hate you're talking about, unless you've been hanging out in sailor fight club thread, or whatever it's called. Most real sailors are helpful, supportive and generous to new folks.

Enjoy your new boat. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

deniseO30 06-05-2016 10:31 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
you are in a great location! 10 yr ago I bought my O'Day 30 just up river by the bridge from Harrington and had the the survey and lift out at Harrington! I spent some time just motoring but the day my son took her out was a rush! Even crossing sand the bar was fun! Inertia of a sailboat can take some time to under stand they keep going and going using reverse helps but stopping the boat dead is a learning curve. Fair winds!

CalebD 06-05-2016 10:38 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
No hate here at all towards new sailors of keel boats. The only thing I hate is that you sound much better prepared than I was on my first keel boat voyage over 12 years ago. Gotta start somewhere though and MikeOReily is correct that most yachties will chew your ear off attempting to be helpful. I'm probably one of them.

Get out there and sail that C&C 30'; nice boat BTW. One easy overnight sail (weather permitting) might be from HH to the Tilghman Island cut; Tilghman Marina was nice when visited last year and about $75 for an overnight transient slip w/wifi, shoreside showers, heads... breakfast of sorts too.

guitarguy56 06-05-2016 11:10 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Just don't install an induction cooktop and you won't feel the hate! Otherwise you have a great boat and you'll do just fine! We were in your shoes at one point in our sailing lives.

gamayun 06-05-2016 11:42 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Just take it one step at a time and it'll be cool (and in close quarters, don't go faster, when you can go slower ;) There's very little true hate on these forums, but ya gotta grow a thick skin because they will call out posters' ignorance (mine included) in no time flat. I went from sailing a few times on a motor-less Cal 20 to buying a 38-footer. First time I docked it to get fuel just before bringing it up the Northern California coast, I watched the attendants struggle to hold onto the dock lines and wrestle my boat to the dock. My friend leans over and says in my ear, "now take it out of gear."

Sheez.

But really, it's all good. Just take it one day at a time and you're going to have a blast every day you go out :)

smackdaddy 06-05-2016 11:51 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
78 Attachment(s)
Serpa - you're the reason sailing exists. Hang tough brotha. And have some big fun out there.

albrazzi 06-05-2016 11:58 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Keep it simple bow into the slip back out work the wind.

jrd22 06-06-2016 12:05 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I hate you. You just think you can buy a sailboat and sail away, eh? Well think again bucko, the ocean is no place for newbies like you. Come back in 20 years or so and maybe we'll let you do some sailing, or maybe not. Until then just enjoy being a landlubber and get those ridiculous thoughts of sailing in a gentle breeze, anchoring in an idyllic cove, exploring places you've always heard about but never in your wildest dreams thought you would be able to sail there on your own boat, out of your silly head. :-))

Squidd 06-06-2016 02:09 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
You can always buy an RV...costs are about the same I hear...

norsearayder 06-06-2016 08:57 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
welcome to the site !tons of good people here. ihave found ansers here on many related subjects...ignore the aholes...u gotta a good boat so sail the hell out of her...in docking come in slow and then slow down .keep your steerage...don't drift.... after the first 50 times or so u can do it in your sleep...good luck and enjoy

Siamese 06-06-2016 09:30 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Experienced sailors hate new sailors? Riiiiiight. Sorry Serpa, not buying it.

At my marina, new sailors are met with open arms and encouragement. I suppose the exception would be if the new sailor was a jerk.

Hmmmm.

RobGallagher 06-06-2016 09:30 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
You are starting with a great boat. Myself, I never sailed a day until I took ASA 101 and 105 back in 2001. Then I bought my 1972 C&C 30MKI that fall. 12 years later I sold that boat and bought my second C&C.

The owner of my first boat and I became friends and we still stay in contact and sail together once or twice a year. One thing he told me that I'll never forget;

"The perfect days of sailing and all the perfect sunsets blend together. The days when things go wrong, something breaks or the weather turns to snot, those are the days you remember. Those are the days that become stories to tell, times to look back and laugh at."

misfits 06-06-2016 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fryewe (Post 3522386)
Nervous, huh?

Nobody will laugh at you. We were all there once.

Don't believe it. Everyone will laugh at you.
Funny thing about boating, you're either watching the show or you are the show:)
We've all been there, relax & enjoy it.
Good luck with the new boat & have fun!

Sailormon6 06-06-2016 07:02 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Yeah, when you look back on your newbie-ness, 30 years from now, you'll view your failures with almost as much fondness as your successes. Trust me on this. Every failure is a learning experience. They make you grow.

Fau 06-06-2016 07:10 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Hmmm. I'm still relatively new and I've found most sailors to be remarkably helpful and welcoming. Good luck with your new boat!

miatapaul 06-06-2016 07:16 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Yea, I think this sight is mostly encouraging, though if you have a real hair brained, or even dangerous idea you might get a little blow back, but it is with your interest in mind.

Remember the only difference between being laughed at and being laughed with is attitude. Enjoy the fun, even in your own mistakes!

krisscross 06-06-2016 08:15 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3522370)
So many videos and such calling new people all kinds of stuff.

When did we start making videos laughing at newbies? And why was I not invited? ;)
Dude, relax... pi.ss on them old timers telling you what to do. They talk tough now but in their days they made such bonehead moves they are too embarrassed to talk about it even when fully liquored up.

boatpoker 06-06-2016 08:31 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Get rid of the CQR ...... the hate will dissipate :)

Skipper Jer 06-06-2016 08:55 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Hate the newbees? Why would we do that? Who would we sell our small sailboats to in order to purchase a larger one?
I just get a bit miffed when the over whelming advice is DON'T DO IT, then the newbee does it, then comes back here to whine about it. Like when someone drops a tow line in the middle of a the bay while towing a deep draft mold infested not running engine hasn't move in eons sailboat.

chef2sail 06-06-2016 08:58 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
How could you ever hate a person who is ants to sail. How can you hate a fellow C&C owner.
Hope we run into each other on the Bay

All of us started as newbs once😀😀😀

nolatom 06-06-2016 09:33 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
What planet, or moon, are you sailing on? Titan, the one with the methane ocean, off of Saturn?? I can see how that could get nasty. But you may not need antifouling paint, so even there I bet it's not *all* bad

Couldn't be Earth, at least the one I know. I've been treated with kindness most everywhere, and have tried to return it. Cranky people are everywhere, probably some on boats. But not many.

Even on Sailing Anarchy they are sorta nice on certain occasions.


I think this is in the eye of the beholder?? To paraphrase Henry Ford, "whether you think people are friendly, or unfriendly, you're right"...

xort 06-06-2016 09:41 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I hate that people hate hate. Why do we all have to get along? :-)

Link to the hate vids please, should be 'interesting'.

Siamese 06-06-2016 10:33 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I re-read the original post, and again I'm shaking my head. "Instant hate" from people when they find out you're a new to sailing?

What's really annoying is people referring to others as haters with nothing to back it up. As has already been suggested Serpa, give us a link to these hateful videos. You claim there a a lot of them.

You know....put up or shut up.

boatpoker 06-06-2016 10:48 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
OP seems to be the one with some kind of "hate", insecurity or jealousy issue.

titustiger27 06-06-2016 10:55 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3522370)
So many videos and such calling new people all kinds of stuff. Seems like everyone keeps saying you shouldn't be allowed to sail (not to me) to all the beginners. Everyone, even experts have to have their 1st week on a boat. Shish, you have to learn some time. It's like instant hate when people see you've been sailing for anything less than 20 years.

I have my 1st day of sailing my boat coming this month (30' C&C 30). I'm graduating from a 15' potter sail boat at 400lbs to this 9,000 lbs beast. Not looking forward to all the hate everyone spews. I have just completed ASA 101, 103/104, but still nervous about it. I'll see if a dock hand at the marina will jump onboard for my 1st docking in a marina. Life has thus far been motoring onto my trailer with a motor that rotates 360 degrees. Backing up this 30' boat with not much effect/prop wash, is intimidating even though I didn't bash in the sailing instructor's beneteau 35 docking in 28-32 sustained wind.

Just a rant, no response required.


If you are talking about forums... that is how it is. Actually kind of how it is in general.

People who have been around want it to be how it is.. they want more people/members, but those people should just stand in their shade.

I have lived in two very small communities and two of the local complaints are: 1) how come the new people always tell us how to do things; and 2) how come the new people don't volunteer more.

To use a forum there have been about three really good jokes used in this thread, all insider jokes. So if you haven't read all the threads these comments will come off as kind of snarky.

There is always a sense you should revere the person who has been posting for 10 years or 4,000 posts .. not all of course.. but that is just kind of respect your elders kind of thing. You could ask a question and if you don't seem worthy, they will suggest you google it... not accepting you are looking for the wisdom of a site.

And same is true in the real world, only when you are docking your boat for the first time, the chances of someone suggesting you 'google it,' probably isn't as prevalent.

At the end of the day, some forget we are all immigrants.


outbound 06-06-2016 11:30 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Been at it 35+ years.
Every time I dock I'm new at it.
Every time something breaks I'm new at it.
New ways to do maintenance. New places to go. New people. It's all new.
Every time I need to buy something for the boat I'm new at it.
Every passage be it coastal or offshore I'm new at it.
Every time I need to pick a weather window I'm new at it.
The list goes on ad naseum.

To the OP all of us are eternal newbies. That's what makes sailing and cruising so addictive. There's always some to new to learn. Always something new to experience. You will never be satisfied with your skill set. That's a good thing.

CalebD 06-07-2016 12:14 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
What Outbound said.
& Prepare for the worst while hoping for the best ...
Every sail is different, even in the same bay day after day.

serpa4 06-07-2016 01:26 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
We, not in this forum. I guess it's all on you tube and I should stop watching those videos. I spend a lot of time on you tube since I'm currently in New Mexico and cannot get real experience here.
Lots of videos showing the idiot new guy failing to dock properly, running aground, etc. Maybe it everyone making fun of the dumb stuff new people do vice just hating the new guy.

smackdaddy 06-07-2016 01:27 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
78 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by xort (Post 3524554)
I hate that people hate hate. Why do we all have to get along? :-)

Link to the hate vids please, should be 'interesting'.

All we are saying, is give hate a chance.

Uricanejack 06-07-2016 02:33 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Maybe if we lay off the new guy. He might realise he is mistaken. giving a hard time for what he perceives is unlikely to change his perception.
You tube, will make fun of almost anyone doing almost anything, its not restricted to sailing or filmed by "sailors".

oldragbaggers 06-07-2016 09:02 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3524794)
We, not in this forum. I guess it's all on you tube and I should stop watching those videos. I spend a lot of time on you tube since I'm currently in New Mexico and cannot get real experience here.
Lots of videos showing the idiot new guy failing to dock properly, running aground, etc. Maybe it everyone making fun of the dumb stuff new people do vice just hating the new guy.

This sounds kind of like the sailors equivalent of Funniest Home Videos or something. People love to video people doing stupid stuff, not just sailors.

We've been in the sailing community for many years and have never experienced the kind of hate, either toward us when we were newbies, or toward new people that have come along since, that you are describing. To the contrary, I think some of the kindest, most generous, and helpful people I have ever met have been boaters. Me thinks you are feeling very defensive and/or insecure for some reason. Let that go and enjoy your boat.

Some people on some of the forums are real pieces of work sometimes, but I think that's a symptom of just who they are as people and probably isn't exclusive to their sailing life. People who are assholes tend to have that assholeyness exaggerated online where they have keyboard courage and don't have to deal with people face to face. Why would you care what that kind of person thinks anyway?

Siamese 06-07-2016 09:28 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
So, given the choice of "put up or shut up", you seem to have chosen "none of the above", as you haven't shown one of the many, hate filled videos you told us about.

Seems like you either have some personal issues you need to resolve, as has already been suggested, or you just throw the "hate" word around indiscriminately. Either way, you should quit it.

guitarguy56 06-07-2016 10:04 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3524794)
We, not in this forum. I guess it's all on you tube and I should stop watching those videos. I spend a lot of time on you tube since I'm currently in New Mexico and cannot get real experience here.
Lots of videos showing the idiot new guy failing to dock properly, running aground, etc. Maybe it everyone making fun of the dumb stuff new people do vice just hating the new guy.

Yes... You should stop watching those videos and go out on your boat with someone experienced to show you the ropes, etc. Youtube while it may be informative in one aspect is NOT the place to get real experience (although there are some real good training videos)... Those videos you see are like the 'bloopers' videos showing the worst in people and should not be taken in for real experience more as a 'Capt Ron' type humor.

If you have the time to get out on the boat as much as you can, you will see that much of what's been said here by many experienced sailors will soon click in your head and it'll be a breeze. Sailing isn't rocket science and even Einstein had some bad days on his sailboat too. Enjoy and let down that hate... breathe!

jwing 06-07-2016 10:09 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3524794)
We, not in this forum. I guess it's all on you tube and I should stop watching those videos. I spend a lot of time on you tube since I'm currently in New Mexico and cannot get real experience here.
Lots of videos showing the idiot new guy failing to dock properly, running aground, etc. Maybe it everyone making fun of the dumb stuff new people do vice just hating the new guy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers (Post 3525026)
Some people on some of the forums are real pieces of work sometimes, but I think that's a symptom of just who they are as people and probably isn't exclusive to their sailing life. People who are assholes tend to have that assholeyness exaggerated online where they have keyboard courage and don't have to deal with people face to face. Why would you care what that kind of person thinks anyway?

Considering that serpa4 has admitted that he is informed mostly by the internet and doesn't have much real life experience, it is understandable that he/she may be concerned about sailors' attitudes in light of the existence of internet jerks that oldragbaggers acknowledges.

Case in point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siamese (Post 3525066)
So, given the choice of "put up or shut up", you seem to have chosen "none of the above", as you haven't shown one of the many, hate filled videos you told us about.

Seems like you either have some personal issues you need to resolve, as has already been suggested, or you just throw the "hate" word around indiscriminately. Either way, you should quit it.

I'll add that Sailing Anarchy is a place that attracts jerks and Cruisers Forum has quite a lot of argumentative threads and lots of posters there seem intolerant of those who do not have expertise in their particular set of group-thought. Even this thread piles on the OP for expressing an observation that is not popular with the in-group.

To serpa4 - Sailors, as a whole, aren't different than the general population, as a whole. Your experience will mostly be about the attitude you bring and how you react to the various people and situations you will encounter. Most people are good and want to be helpful. Some are insecure and need to put other people down in order to prop themselves up. Some are crusty on the outside and warm and fuzzy on the inside....Find the people you like; try to be nice to the people you don't like, and above all, don't be an ashhole.
Don't be afraid to ask questions or request help. It gives people an convenient opportunity to do their daily good deed. And if you follow their advice, they will not criticize you.

As in all groups, the jargon seems offputting to the neophyte. But just like traveling to different countries, an attempt to learn a bit of the language is appreciated and goes a long way toward having people warm up to you.

MikeOReilly 06-07-2016 11:25 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oldragbaggers (Post 3525026)
Some people on some of the forums are real pieces of work sometimes, but I think that's a symptom of just who they are as people and probably isn't exclusive to their sailing life. People who are assholes tend to have that assholeyness exaggerated online where they have keyboard courage and don't have to deal with people face to face. Why would you care what that kind of person thinks anyway?

+1

Sadly both forums I participate have a small but mouthy contingent of @-holes. I do find SN to be somewhat better than CF. From what I've heard, I have zero interest in SA. Mostly you just learn who these people are, and then ignore them ... just like in real life.

Of course this is why I said, "Most real sailors are helpful, supportive and generous to new folks." By real, I mean people out at the anchorage, or on the dock. There are real sailors/cruisers here as well, but the online world seems to bring out the @-hole in all of us much more than in real life :o.

Squidd 06-07-2016 12:02 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOReilly (Post 3525298)
+1


Of course this is why I said, "Most real sailors are helpful, supportive and generous to new folks." By real, I mean people out at the anchorage, or on the dock. There are real sailors/cruisers here as well, but the online world seems to bring out the @-hole in all of us much more than in real life :o.


I don't know about that, I was an @-hole long before the internet came along...back in the good old days when you had to do it face to face..

Of course being a sailor now may have mellowed that a bit..

Don L 06-07-2016 12:20 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by serpa4 (Post 3524794)
Lots of videos showing the idiot new guy failing to dock properly, running aground, etc. Maybe it everyone making fun of the dumb stuff new people do vice just hating the new guy.

How do you know they are "new"?

guitarguy56 06-07-2016 12:57 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Seems the norm for people on the internet to vet their anger and hate... hey it's easy since it involves no real interaction. I have architect friends who state the same anger, unprofessionalism, miscontent when differing in viewpoints on their forums not much different than what we see here and in other sailing forums.

I don't believe I see this in real life with people at the dock or marina but instead see helpful, full of advice, good natured sailors and visitors. I only see this back to back vitriol here and I am one to admit I have done my share of it in the past. No real intention... 'The internet made me do it' is about what anyone can suffice.

oldragbaggers 06-07-2016 01:15 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don0190 (Post 3525402)
How do you know they are "new"?

Good point, Don. Experience or no experience, just when you think you can do no wrong, you do.

newt 06-07-2016 11:02 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I don't know..."hate","new" and small are such overused terms, as in "I hate because he is the new guy and his boat is small" Let's mix up the terms a bit. How about "I abhor him because he is shallow (and so is his draft) and insensitive" or we could evoke the class struggle and say "I will imprison him because he is a capitalist and has more money in his boat than me". I mean "give hate a chance" is cute and everything, but come on, lets be creative. How about a little goth and we could "give the plague a chance, get your boat rats in New Mexico" and bring love with a pocket full of Paises.
If we're going to flame, let's flame with color!

serpa4 06-08-2016 05:11 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Siamese (Post 3525066)
So, given the choice of "put up or shut up", you seem to have chosen "none of the above", as you haven't shown one of the many, hate filled videos you told us about.

Seems like you either have some personal issues you need to resolve, as has already been suggested, or you just throw the "hate" word around indiscriminately. Either way, you should quit it.

Hostile are we?
I work 12hr shifts plus a drive each way. Top of my list of things to do are sleep and eating.

Zarathu 06-08-2016 09:27 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Sailors are like electricians. They know that there is only one way to do something.

They know that if someone does it in another way than the "right way" it will destroy the balance of life as we know it. And they know that if they hear that someone did it differently than the right way, that it will also destroy their entire understanding of the world as they know it, and so that person must be stopped, and in as abrupt a way as possible.

What they don't know is that there are actually a 100 ways to do something, and that their way is just one of the 100.

Lake Superior Sailor 06-08-2016 09:33 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Stupid is, as stupid does!....Dale

guitarguy56 06-08-2016 09:39 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3527018)
Sailors are like electricians. They know that there is only one way to do something.

They know that if someone does it in another way than the "right way" it will destroy the balance of life as we know it. And they know that if they hear that someone did it differently than the right way, that it will also destroy their entire understanding of the world as they know it, and so that person must be stopped, and in as abrupt a way as possible.

What they don't know is that there are actually a 100 ways to do something, and that their way is just one of the 100.

Best post of the week! Bravo to you for saying so!

jwing 06-08-2016 09:58 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3527018)
...

What they don't know is that there are actually a 100 ways to do something, and that their way is just one of the 100.

The other side of that coin is that there are 10,000 wrong ways to do something. I find at least 1 or 2 every time I take my boat out.

Zarathu 06-08-2016 10:08 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing (Post 3527122)
The other side of that coin is that there are 10,000 wrong ways to do something. I find at least 1 or 2 every time I take my boat out.

I hope you are saving them so you can write a best-seller.

I read a book online(I think I have on it on my main computer) where the guy did something seriously wrong every time he went out. He began to expect it. After he stopped doing things wrong, he bought a new boat because he said sailing without making a serious error was just no fun anymore.

I can't imagine that, unless I try really really hard.

jwing 06-08-2016 10:29 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3527162)
I hope you are saving them so you can write a best-seller...

I did start a log book of lessons-learned. But then I left it in the boat and it got covered in mildew....

guitarguy56 06-08-2016 10:36 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing (Post 3527242)
I did start a log book of lessons-learned. But then I left it in the boat and it got covered in mildew....

Wasn't this book written already: 'Sailing for Dummies'?

Zarathu 06-08-2016 10:38 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing (Post 3527242)
I did start a log book of lessons-learned. But then I left it in the boat and it got covered in mildew....

Another item learned. How to keep important items in zip-lock bags. The previous owner of my boat had a large bag of big zip lock bags. Everything that could get mildewed was kept in a zip lock bag.

bobperry 06-08-2016 10:42 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I really enjoy working with new sailors. Yes, I might laugh when they T bone the dock but having T boned several docks in my life I think have earned the right to laugh. I think one of the attractions to sailing is that you never figure it all out. It's always time to experiment and learn when you leave the dock. I don't get the "hate" thing at all.

Zarathu 06-08-2016 10:45 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by guitarguy56 (Post 3527274)
Wasn't this book written already: 'Sailing for Dummies'?

No... that book tells the Isler Brothers view of the "right way". We are talking about a book that defines all the less the right ways, and even the stupidly dumb ways that no one should use.

This book will be written by someone who didn't have Isler's book or chose not to follow it. And there are some things that are not in Islers book-such as the importance of not using ethanol gas without stabilizers in outboard motors, and examples of what terrible things can happen to you if the wind dies in a place with a tide, and you have no motor and you are drifting toward the rocks and there are no other sailors nearby, and the USCG station is 10 miles away, and your cell phone batteries are dead and and your VHF won't work because you didn't set it up properly and the 2 mile portable VHF won't reach to the USCG station, and its now dark, and by this time you are scared [email protected]

Isler doesn't cover that one.

And if this happened to you...you can laugh. Otherwise you can't.

misfits 06-08-2016 12:34 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 3524802)
All we are saying, is give hate a chance.

I couldn't stop laughing when I saw this.
It's reassuring knowing I'm not the only twisted person out there:)

Zarathu 06-08-2016 01:47 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by misfits (Post 3527682)
I couldn't stop laughing when I saw this.
It's reassuring knowing I'm not the only twisted person out there:)

Yeah... there are 2 of you(three of the Donald shows up)

Don L 06-08-2016 01:51 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3527778)
Yeah... there are 2 of you(three of the Donald shows up)

watch it there

I love new people and new people LOVE me

You are treating me very unfair, VERY UNFAIR

Zarathu 06-08-2016 02:08 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don0190 (Post 3527794)
watch it there

I love new people and new people LOVE me

You are treating me very unfair, VERY UNFAIR

Oh Sorry. BTW my F-in-law was a died in the wool republican who would be appalled that people might confuse him with You Know Who.

Don L 06-08-2016 02:22 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3527818)
BTW my F-in-law

what a F-in-law?

arknoah 06-08-2016 03:01 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
First of all, I've made a lot of bonehead moves as a newer sailor, yet fortunately I haven't gotten a lot of "hate" because of it, especially in the marina. In this forum, however, I've read posts in a number of threads that have been or seemed snarky, and they are usually directed toward newbies asking very innocent questions, like in this thread:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...elm-style.html

The guy just wanted information, and before some of us answered his question, we slammed him. Later in the thread, someone mentioned that maybe our tone with the poster wasn't so great, but by that time, the damage was done.

Maybe not so much hate, but arrogance? Probably not the idea way to welcome a new sailor to our forum.

Just sayin'....

newt 06-08-2016 04:58 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Maybe we are a bit crusty to newb's questions. I think that is a valid critique. But hate - naww. I just wouldn't buy him beverage at the sailnet bar. But he's welcome to sit down and jaw...

bobperry 06-08-2016 05:30 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
All I said was " what is a double ended transom?" Is that snarky?

Zarathu 06-08-2016 08:35 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don0190 (Post 3527842)
what a F-in-law?

Father-in-law=f-in-law

SimonV 06-09-2016 02:34 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
To be honest I don't know anyone who gets excited about going in or coming out of their dock, or the fuel
dock or tie up to any immovable structure. I like most enjoy the feeling you get after you have been to these hideous places and tied up or left with the paint you started with. The less people/witnesses the odds are in your favor it will all work out right.

FLFrers36 06-09-2016 06:27 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Hey, I was nervous as hell with my first big boat; went from 17' Boston Whaler Harpoon (last sailed 20 yrs ago) to a 36' Frers. Just be very deliberate and slow when docking or leaving slip. It helped me to mentally go over docking w/ crew (my wife) before starting engine and while coming home. If people want to help with lines, accept their help.

sailon1 06-13-2016 06:03 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Congratulations on taking the next big step, and yes, there are some naysayers and detractors out there
who are best ignored.

I'm in a situation similar to yours-just bought a Pearson 30' with relatively little experience. Fortunantly,
I have a slip that provides wide and easy access to canal that leads to Lake Erie and plenty of room
for practice. I go out at least 3 times a week and try to add something new to my experience each time.

On land, I also take seamanship courses, read up on sailing terminology and practice basic navigating.

So, keep up the good work, and perhaps you will find some sailing partners who can help show you the ropes!

Lauren Schmitt 06-14-2016 10:35 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I've never experienced hate to be honest, as you said, everyone needs to start somewhere! If you experience that sort of hate, I would suggest to not mingle with that type of crowd? They don't seem to be worth it! Sailing is a passion and hobby to be shared with others!

Zarathu 06-14-2016 10:58 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonV (Post 3528866)
To be honest I don't know anyone who gets excited about going in or coming out of their dock, or the fuel
dock or tie up to any immovable structure. I like most enjoy the feeling you get after you have been to these hideous places and tied up or left with the paint you started with. The less people/witnesses the odds are in your favor it will all work out right.

Just to post another point....

Those of us who don't have a dock, and who have to take a dinghy 950 feet away to a mooring in all yuck wind and wave conditions just to go out, and who MUST have a dinghy and MUST have a small outboard on the dinghy, are often intensely jealous of those of you who have the benefit of an immovable structure to be able to walk out and get on the boat.

guitarguy56 06-14-2016 11:03 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

...are often intensely jealous of those of you who have the benefit of an immovable structure to be able to walk out and get on the boat.
Thank you! :devil :2 boat:

aeventyr60 06-14-2016 11:05 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newt (Post 3528106)
Maybe we are a bit crusty to newb's questions. I think that is a valid critique. But hate - naww. I just wouldn't buy him beverage at the sailnet bar. But he's welcome to sit down and jaw...

The newb's always shout at the bar for the old salts...part of the tradition..if not, a whole lot of hate coming down.:captain:

Buc210 06-14-2016 09:42 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
1. The nasty stuff that some people vomit online says WAY MORE about their issues than anything to do with those it is directed at.
2. I first noticed the this behavior by some, not all, of the sailing community online in the 1990s. It is all over the online world. It is far less likely that these individuals would venture to say in person, the nasty nonsense that they propagate online. They are protected by an online nom-de-plume and physical and geographic distance from any real consequences.
3. This makes them bullies and folks that you would not wish to spend time with either online or in the real world.
4. Keep gathering information re: sailing online, in books and on the water.
Fair Winds!
Captain B
Florida
(Sailing since 1968....STILL LEARNING TODAY!! :)

titustiger27 06-14-2016 10:45 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 


sepra4

A lot of this is perspective...

on your side, people that 'own' this site because they have been here for a while don't like intruders.... or stupid questions (yes there are stupid questions if you are a veteran and you have answered the question 30 times.

On the other hand.. the questions have been answered 30 times.. and did you search it out? and did you respect the veterans here?

Also, I have this problem a lot, people infer from your questions things you haven't implied. With me, I come off as snarky, I don't mean to... and don't understand how to not to.... but in the end I seem to bring it out...


newt 06-15-2016 12:45 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by titustiger27 (Post 3538210)


With me, I come off as snarky, I don't mean to... and don't understand how to not to.... but in the end I seem to bring it out...


I have been told it was because of my authoritarian father.

"but in the end I seem to bring it out"

truer words concerning the plight of mankind have never been spoken.
:laugh

titustiger27 06-15-2016 06:27 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newt (Post 3538290)
I have been told it was because of my authoritarian father.

"but in the end I seem to bring it out"

truer words concerning the plight of mankind have never been spoken.
:laugh

It could be worse.. I could end up in relationships with abusive women

albrazzi 06-15-2016 07:41 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Stupid is in the eye of the beholder. If that's your view and snark is all you can do then let someone else answer it. Veteran or no doesn't give the right to be short tempered with someone who is new. I direct this at no one, just an observation.
I see too many of these evolve (between veterans at times) into something it doesn't have to be.

MikeOReilly 06-15-2016 09:26 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by titustiger27 (Post 3538210)

... On the other hand.. the questions have been answered 30 times.. and did you search it out? and did you respect the veterans here?

Also, I have this problem a lot, people infer from your questions things you haven't implied. With me, I come off as snarky, I don't mean to... and don't understand how to not to.... but in the end I seem to bring it out...

Geese, do you always have to be so snarky :devil

The whole "I get annoyed at newbie questions" thing kinda annoys me though ;). No one forces anyone to read, let alone respond, to anything here. If you're annoyed by a newbie post, just move on. If you don't have anything useful to say, read something else.

What annoys me much, much more than obvious newbie questions are old farts posting useless and sometimes snarky comments like, "Use the search tool!" or "Go read a book!"

I have no problem with people using this forum as the first source of info. I usually ignore the obvious "I have a dream, but don't know where to start" threads. But there's nothing wrong with the same question about anchors, hulls, heads, engines, and insurance coming up over and over. If I have something useful to contribute, I do. If not, I move on. No biggy.

After all, this is a discussion group, not a library.

aeventyr60 06-15-2016 09:32 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Yeah, and the old people hate the old people too, we just have thicker skins...we get a bit snarky at times with the bitter old dudes who like to sail modern production boats...or dream of doing it...hey, where is that smackdaddy dude when you need him?

Don L 06-15-2016 02:04 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I hate short people!
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies

Someone should write a song

Zarathu 06-15-2016 02:28 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
My daughter hates bugs: big bugs, little bugs, live bugs or dead bugs.

I don't hate anything. The progenitor of my religious beliefs told me to love my enemies. I do. I may not like what they do, or what their personalities choose to do, but I try hard to love them none-the-less.

Zarathu 06-15-2016 02:29 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don0190 (Post 3539186)
I hate short people!
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies

Someone should write a song

Its a disgusting song. My sister is 4'9" tall.

Don L 06-15-2016 04:07 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3539210)
Its a disgusting song. My sister is 4'9" tall.

So she knows where I stand. I stand TALL :angel

jwing 06-15-2016 05:23 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathu (Post 3539210)
Its a disgusting song. My sister is 4'9" tall.

Apparently, you haven't listened to the song in the context of Randy Newman's body of work, nor have you listened to the whole song. Here's the payoff:

Short People are just the same
As you and I
(It's A Wonderful World)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die


There, I've just removed a bit of disgust from your life.

titustiger27 06-15-2016 05:50 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOReilly (Post 3538722)
Geese, do you always have to be so snarky :devil

The whole "I get annoyed at newbie questions" thing kinda annoys me though ;). No one forces anyone to read, let alone respond, to anything here. If you're annoyed by a newbie post, just move on. If you don't have anything useful to say, read something else.

What annoys me much, much more than obvious newbie questions are old farts posting useless and sometimes snarky comments like, "Use the search tool!" or "Go read a book!"

I have no problem with people using this forum as the first source of info. I usually ignore the obvious "I have a dream, but don't know where to start" threads. But there's nothing wrong with the same question about anchors, hulls, heads, engines, and insurance coming up over and over. If I have something useful to contribute, I do. If not, I move on. No biggy.

After all, this is a discussion group, not a library.


Couldn't agree with you more!

And the irony -- often --- is people are asking the advice of the 'old farts' who one would hope, now better....

Many a time I have posted a question to a forum or list serv and was met with the mean-ness, when what I was hoping for was some sage advice.

If my question was: "Which side is up, on my Designer's Choice 15"

Perhaps it is stupid, perhaps I could find the answer elsewhere

but I don't want my answer from a Yelp Review, I want it from my future friend on SailNet

Zarathu 06-15-2016 05:52 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing (Post 3539410)
Apparently, you haven't listened to the song in the context of Randy Newman's body of work, nor have you listened to the whole song. Here's the payoff:

Short People are just the same
As you and I
(It's A Wonderful World)
All men are brothers
Until the day they die


There, I've just removed a bit of disgust from your life.

Now THAT YOU COMPLETED THE SONG I do remember the rest of the lyrics.

I also have the one for bugs: The bugs crawl in, the bugs crawl out, the bugs play pinochle on your snout.....

titustiger27 06-15-2016 05:54 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don0190 (Post 3539186)
I hate short people!
They got little hands
And little eyes
And they walk around
Tellin' great big lies

Someone should write a song


Short people got no reason


I don't know if they deserve a song

Zarathu 06-15-2016 05:56 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I love the fact that this forum does in fact answer interesting questions. Its not just a front for a bunch of cliquey people who are only interested in arranging outings in their little part of the world for their boat type, and are shepherded by someone with a very narrow viewpoint.

People with wide views are here and they will share them. And if I don't like them I can tell them, but they still have the right to share them anyways.

senormechanico 06-15-2016 10:32 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
SARCASM if people can't read

THIS THREAD IS USELESS !

PLEASE discuss sailing, not I'm offended by xyz, I AM offended by how the progressives have gutted my ability to speak about what is ACTUALLY happening.
I sincerely "HOPE" you get what is happening.

Argh.

Moderators please delete me if you disagree. I wil know where you stand with FREEDOM if that's the case.

Steve B.
senormechanico

ed211 06-15-2016 10:39 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
man up

smackdaddy 06-15-2016 10:51 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
78 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwing (Post 3525162)
I'll add that Sailing Anarchy is a place that attracts jerks and Cruisers Forum has quite a lot of argumentative threads and lots of posters there seem intolerant of those who do not have expertise in their particular set of group-thought. Even this thread piles on the OP for expressing an observation that is not popular with the in-group.

I found FAR more jerks on CF than I've ever found on SA. The difference is, the actual jerks on SA are the outsiders, the actual jerks on CF are the insiders.

This place is a much better balance of the two. Everyone's a jerk on SN.

smackdaddy 06-15-2016 11:01 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
78 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by arknoah (Post 3527914)
First of all, I've made a lot of bonehead moves as a newer sailor, yet fortunately I haven't gotten a lot of "hate" because of it, especially in the marina. In this forum, however, I've read posts in a number of threads that have been or seemed snarky, and they are usually directed toward newbies asking very innocent questions, like in this thread:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...elm-style.html

The guy just wanted information, and before some of us answered his question, we slammed him. Later in the thread, someone mentioned that maybe our tone with the poster wasn't so great, but by that time, the damage was done.

Maybe not so much hate, but arrogance? Probably not the idea way to welcome a new sailor to our forum.

Just sayin'....

Dude, trust me, this place is FAR better than it used to be in terms of slamming newbs (you're welcome BTW).

Grab a six-pack and some cornnuts and read through these classics to see what I mean:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...tml#post118208

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/living...g-miracle.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...ly-sucked.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...olar-wind.html

I mean, back then we had a MODERATOR setting up people in order to ban them. Just like over on CF.

No, it's WAY better around here now. So let's keep some perspective on all this.

cshrimpt 06-16-2016 12:02 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Sailing is easy, good seamanship is hard. Learn sailing by doing and seamanship by studying. Everything will work out if you pay attention to what you're doing.

Shrimp

Buc210 06-18-2016 09:32 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I have seen what you mention. A member told me that "the Veterans on here get tired of the same dumb questions again and again." I took offense, being a US Army Veteran at the use of the term "Veteran" by a member of this site. The person went on to explain that they get "Snarky" at all the dumb questions. My response is that if they were not a "veteran" on Salient, if they were in a paid position in the corporate world or government, academia, etc, they would not get "Snarky" for two reasons. As anyone who has provided instruction or been a teacher would know - there are no stupid or dumb questions. Second - if a paid instructor or teacher got snarky with a student or client - they would soon be out of a job. Instead, these "Snarky" "Veterans" face no consequences on this site (or much of the online world.) There being no consequences - their true personalities and character are shown to the world. If they had pleasant, healthy personalities and good character - it would not matter if there were no consequences. I wonder if they are "snarky" to their spouses in response to "dumb" questions? That would be interesting to see! Snarky is defined in the dictionary as: 1. testy, irritable or short. 2. Having a rudely critical tone or manner. After teaching/instructing in the military, corporate sector, schools and sailing, I can assure you, "Snarky" or "Snarki-ness" has no place in the classroom or on the water. It's not good for the sport of sailing. Don't let these "Veterans" treat you like they are gods on top of Mt. Olympus and you are a neophyte mortal kneeling in supplication for their knowledge to be doled out to you. You and the sport of sailing or better than that or them. I assure you, they are not "Hateful", "Nasty", "Snarky" or anything like that to their bosses, co-workers, spouses, children. If they are, they most assuredly have dysfunctional and short business and personal relationships.
Lastly, I have been sailing for 48 years and I am still learning. Students of mine have given me new insights into sailing.
Hang in there and don't let the "Snarks" get you down!
Buc210

arknoah 06-18-2016 04:57 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOReilly (Post 3538722)
What annoys me much, much more than obvious newbie questions are old farts posting useless and sometimes snarky comments like, "Use the search tool!" or "Go read a book!"

I have no problem with people using this forum as the first source of info. I usually ignore the obvious "I have a dream, but don't know where to start" threads. But there's nothing wrong with the same question about anchors, hulls, heads, engines, and insurance coming up over and over. If I have something useful to contribute, I do. If not, I move on. No biggy.

Amen, brother. What sometimes concerns me is that sometimes a newbie asks a question, and is really unable to use the search function because he or she doesn't some of the terminology, making the search function of little value. As you say, if question has been asked a gazillion times and some decides to ask it again (perhaps not know it has ever been asked), just don't waste your time answering it. Someone else may eventually answer it, and you don't have to be bothered -- a win-win.

Zarathu 06-18-2016 11:34 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Any one who thinks its difficult here....I can give you some cliquey little groups that are really quite impossible.

This one is really quite nice.

johnny buddha 06-18-2016 11:49 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nolatom (Post 3524546)
What planet, or moon, are you sailing on? Titan, the one with the methane ocean, off of Saturn?? I can see how that could get nasty. But you may not need antifouling paint, so even there I bet it's not *all* bad

My wife (@punahougirl84) wrote a short story about a sailing regatta on Titan - did the research, figured out the physics for sailing in a methane sea... Hoping that one sells some day.

johnny buddha 06-18-2016 11:54 PM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeOReilly (Post 3525298)
Sadly both forums I participate have a small but mouthy contingent of @-holes.

Awesome turn of phrase there - misbehavior online personified in the neologism @-hole. Totally stealing this.

CalebD 06-19-2016 12:52 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
It seems that smacky and I have seen some shti on these forums over the years. There were the safaris over to Stuffers (stuffiminto.com), another startup forum. Then the anything-sailing contingent but yadda yadda who wants to know about that.

Things are better here now than they were. Trust us on this. I have also met well over 10 other SN members in real life, including Mr. Smack. I have probably sailed with <= 10 SN members in real life as well. I'm not saying it is a sailing dating thing but if people get to know you by your voice and tembre you might get invited along to help deliver a Beneteau 505 as well.
Part of SN for me is trying to actually meet the people that make posts on this forum that are near me. The fact that I haven't killed any of them yet seems to be working.

Ranting about chat board etiquette is not going to get you invited aboard my boat (not a Bene 505). It can be a very good thing, I discovered, to take a break from SN and/or other forums if something starts to bother you about them, or people on them.

Cruising with Bulldogs was a classic flustercuck!

And "Well my day really sucked" was a classic slo mo train wreck.

Smack, you are missing the tread about the dude from AZ who was wanted by fbi & such on various charges but was in S. Florida asking how to prep his boat to get to the Bahamas. Remember that one. It also ended badly.

What is a cornnut?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 3539826)
Dude, trust me, this place is FAR better than it used to be in terms of slamming newbs (you're welcome BTW).

Grab a six-pack and some cornnuts and read through these classics to see what I mean:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...tml#post118208

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/living...g-miracle.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...ly-sucked.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...olar-wind.html

I mean, back then we had a MODERATOR setting up people in order to ban them. Just like over on CF.

No, it's WAY better around here now. So let's keep some perspective on all this.


smackdaddy 06-19-2016 01:45 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
78 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by CalebD (Post 3544698)
What is a cornnut?

It's a derogatory term for an Iowan sailor.

xort 06-19-2016 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smackdaddy (Post 3539826)
Dude, trust me, this place is FAR better than it used to be in terms of slamming newbs (you're welcome BTW).

Grab a six-pack and some cornnuts and read through these classics to see what I mean:

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruisi...tml#post118208

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/living...g-miracle.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...ly-sucked.html

https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...olar-wind.html

I mean, back then we had a MODERATOR setting up people in order to ban them. Just like over on CF.

No, it's WAY better around here now. So let's keep some perspective on all this.

Those were the days! Our finest hour. The greatest generation. :-)

Don L 06-20-2016 07:11 AM

Re: So much hate to new people.
 
I'm not sure whether it is me or some of the other threads posters, but it seems a adjustment to meds is needed for one of us.


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