sailing past close hauled? - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 116
Thanks: 10
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 3

Re: sailing past close hulled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by serpa4 View Post
Why can't you set your sails past close hulled to point more into the wind than 30 to 35? My assumption...too much wind resistance and you make no progress. 2 faster to fall off and go faster than if you sailed slower into the wind.

The simplest way I can explain this is, the lift vector produced by the sail only really points in one direction, roughly leaning a little forward of perpendicular to the boom when into the wind. Most points of sail are using only a fraction, or component of that lift. You cant just point the boat straight into the wind and pull the boom over past center because then the lift vector now has a component pulling you in reverse of the direction you want to go. There is no forward component left to give.
Attached Thumbnails

CrispyCringle is offline
Sponsored Links
Advertisement

Old 02-16-2019
Learning the HARD way...

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,984
Thanks: 398
Thanked 309 Times in 301 Posts
Rep Power: 14

Re: sailing past close hulled?

In the lower illustration, you would be going backwards...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, US/Sailing BKB and ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also ABYC certified in Marine Electrical Systems,

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,468
Thanks: 2
Thanked 113 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 13

Re: sailing past close hulled?

Jeff... I am thinking that the RESULTANT force is what drives the boat forward. The lift generated pendicular the the sail at any given point going upwind is largely the cause of HEEL.. these forces are driving actually pulling the sail toward the beam (more or less) when sailing hard on the wind. The boat is not efficient sailing to its beam because of its hull form... as it is designed to efficiently move the boat toward the direction the bow is pointing. But leeway is the boat slipping toward the beam... and heeling reduces the underbody's area and resistance to moving toward the beam. Heeling a lot is never a good thing! Boats and sails are designed to have max VMG to wind at certain angle of heel. This is why you have to reef as the wind increases... without reefing you heel excessively and make more leeway and the VMG to weather is driven down.

Fir the most part, when sailing with the wind forward of the beam (more or less) the forward power is generated by the surface of the sails which are facing forward more or less and this is why the fastest point of sail is between close and beam reach. Pinching and sheeting very tight you lose forward area of the sail to pull the boat forward.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now

Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,468
Thanks: 2
Thanked 113 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 13

Re: sailing past close hulled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post

In the lower illustration, you would be going backwards...
The force vectors would be almost the same magnitude at every part of the sail... yet the MOST of those vectors are facing the beam. Without a keel boat would heel way over and slip sideways big time.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Jackson WY
Posts: 2,216
Thanks: 45
Thanked 86 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 19

Re: sailing past close hauled?

Close hauled is close hauled. It is a limiting factor based on your boat. If your boat can go 30 degrees into the wind or in the case of Mark's boat 20 degrees that is a finite limit for each boat in each condition. If you point higher than that, you would be pinching and going slower or sliding sideways.

Jordan
West Wight Potter 14 "Lemon Drop"
Oceanside CA
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 02-16-2019 at 04:43 PM.
jephotog is online now
Old 02-16-2019
Moderator

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 7,148
Thanks: 71
Thanked 320 Times in 291 Posts
Rep Power: 10

Dock
Re: sailing past close hulled?

Just corrected sp in title

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Onboard
Posts: 1,633
Thanks: 19
Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 15

Re: sailing past close hauled?

I think what the OP is trying to describe, withou knowin it, is the principal behind a rotating mast.

What the devil do they call those? We had one at our marina, mast rotated, there was a fixed forward boom off the mast so the whole rig rotated, gene and main.

Damn Alzheimer’s!

Ah ha! Aerorig.

http://www.magmastructures.com/extre...-and-aerorigs/

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter

Last edited by hpeer; 02-16-2019 at 06:20 PM.
hpeer is online now
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nanaimo BC
Posts: 885
Thanks: 0
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4

Re: sailing past close hauled?

I didn't see any reference to high pointing ability.
paulinnanaimo is online now
Old 02-16-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 4,468
Thanks: 2
Thanked 113 Times in 113 Posts
Rep Power: 13

Re: sailing past close hauled?

study polar diagrams... they are made for different wind speeds, different sail plans on the same hull

How to read a polar plot for sailboats | Sailing Blog by NauticEd

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now
Old 02-17-2019
Senior Member

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,720
Thanks: 4
Thanked 131 Times in 129 Posts
Rep Power: 12

Re: sailing past close hauled?

The question appears simple, but the answer is quite complex. The OP expects a beginning class to teach theory, when all it can teach you is how to get away from the dock and return. He expects a quick answer on a forum to a question that deserves several full chapters in a book on sailing theory and trim. That book probably requires you to have read several more before the nuances will be comprehensible.

The answers are in books. The study takes time. Google has ruined us for this traditional process.
https://www.amazon.com/High-Performa.../dp/0713667044

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is online now

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

## Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.

User Name:
Password
 Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Password: Confirm Password:
Email Address
 Please enter a valid email address for yourself. Email Address:
OR

## Log-in

 User Name Password Remember Me?

 Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 Thread Tools Show Printable Version Show Printable Version Email this Page Email this Page

 Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post ColoGuy Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 6 03-05-2017 06:41 PM speciald Gear & Maintenance 2 01-11-2009 08:40 PM davidpm Racing 20 07-08-2008 07:23 AM JakeLevi Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 11-01-2006 06:13 PM Grauadler Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 12-26-2002 11:03 AM

 Posting Rules You may post new threads You may post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OnTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome

 Terms of Use
 Copyright
 Privacy Policy