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post #21 of 85 Old 02-16-2019
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Re: sailing past close hulled?

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Originally Posted by serpa4 View Post
Why can't you set your sails past close hulled to point more into the wind than 30 to 35? My assumption...too much wind resistance and you make no progress. 2 faster to fall off and go faster than if you sailed slower into the wind.

The simplest way I can explain this is, the lift vector produced by the sail only really points in one direction, roughly leaning a little forward of perpendicular to the boom when into the wind. Most points of sail are using only a fraction, or component of that lift. You cant just point the boat straight into the wind and pull the boom over past center because then the lift vector now has a component pulling you in reverse of the direction you want to go. There is no forward component left to give.
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Re: sailing past close hulled?



In the lower illustration, you would be going backwards...
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post #23 of 85 Old 02-16-2019
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Re: sailing past close hulled?

Jeff... I am thinking that the RESULTANT force is what drives the boat forward. The lift generated pendicular the the sail at any given point going upwind is largely the cause of HEEL.. these forces are driving actually pulling the sail toward the beam (more or less) when sailing hard on the wind. The boat is not efficient sailing to its beam because of its hull form... as it is designed to efficiently move the boat toward the direction the bow is pointing. But leeway is the boat slipping toward the beam... and heeling reduces the underbody's area and resistance to moving toward the beam. Heeling a lot is never a good thing! Boats and sails are designed to have max VMG to wind at certain angle of heel. This is why you have to reef as the wind increases... without reefing you heel excessively and make more leeway and the VMG to weather is driven down.

Fir the most part, when sailing with the wind forward of the beam (more or less) the forward power is generated by the surface of the sails which are facing forward more or less and this is why the fastest point of sail is between close and beam reach. Pinching and sheeting very tight you lose forward area of the sail to pull the boat forward.

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post #24 of 85 Old 02-16-2019
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Re: sailing past close hulled?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post


In the lower illustration, you would be going backwards...
The force vectors would be almost the same magnitude at every part of the sail... yet the MOST of those vectors are facing the beam. Without a keel boat would heel way over and slip sideways big time.

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post #25 of 85 Old 02-16-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

Close hauled is close hauled. It is a limiting factor based on your boat. If your boat can go 30 degrees into the wind or in the case of Mark's boat 20 degrees that is a finite limit for each boat in each condition. If you point higher than that, you would be pinching and going slower or sliding sideways.

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post #26 of 85 Old 02-16-2019
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Re: sailing past close hulled?

Just corrected sp in title

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Re: sailing past close hauled?

I think what the OP is trying to describe, withou knowin it, is the principal behind a rotating mast.

What the devil do they call those? We had one at our marina, mast rotated, there was a fixed forward boom off the mast so the whole rig rotated, gene and main.

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Re: sailing past close hauled?

I didn't see any reference to high pointing ability.
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

study polar diagrams... they are made for different wind speeds, different sail plans on the same hull

How to read a polar plot for sailboats | Sailing Blog by NauticEd

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post #30 of 85 Old 02-17-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

The question appears simple, but the answer is quite complex. The OP expects a beginning class to teach theory, when all it can teach you is how to get away from the dock and return. He expects a quick answer on a forum to a question that deserves several full chapters in a book on sailing theory and trim. That book probably requires you to have read several more before the nuances will be comprehensible.

The answers are in books. The study takes time. Google has ruined us for this traditional process.
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