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post #51 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

I dont think i would want a keel on SanderOs theoretical boat. I think light and fast would be the way to go,maybe a tri, maybe foiling. Higher apparent wind speed, less hull in the water, less drag, no big hunk of lead to cart around. I still dont think you could sail straight upwind though. I dont think the technology currently exists to overcome all drag.
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post #52 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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I dont think i would want a keel on SanderOs theoretical boat. I think light and fast would be the way to go,maybe a tri, maybe foiling. Higher apparent wind speed, less hull in the water, less drag, no big hunk of lead to cart around. I still dont think you could sail straight upwind though. I dont think the technology currently exists to overcome all drag.
This may be true... water drag is much more than air drag... so yes very slick and small underbody would be in order. And you DO need a lot of apparent wind. But it is amazing how little wind can get a multi ton vessel moving.

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post #53 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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Minni I think you are not understanding this though experiment. I encourage discussion not an argument.

A vertical mast w/ sail when sailing close to the wind... generates a small vector more or less forward. ....
Draw the cord of the sail, when close to the wind, then draw the same cord on a horizontal wing. You'll see the difference.

The vertical sail/wing is at a very different angle of attack (especially when close, but not directly into the wind) from your theoretical horizontal wing in relation to the forward direction of the vessel.


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post #54 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

How about this... what would the impact be on how your sloop would sail of you could can't the mast (tip it at its base) to one side or the other. Would you kill your ability to point and make more leeway? I think so if it is tipped to leeward. If it is tipped to windward what would happen? stall?

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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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Draw the cord of the sail, when close to the wind, then draw the same cord on a horizontal wing. You'll see the difference.

The vertical sail/wing is at a very different angle of attack (especially when close, but not directly into the wind) from your theoretical horizontal wing in relation to the forward direction of the vessel.
correct.... but why can't the horizontal sail be rotated? It can... the chord can be any angle... not all will work of course... the luff has to be... should be higher than the leach. no?

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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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A glider moves forward doesn't it?
Yes, but not for free. It has potential energy in the form of altitude. Its moving forward because its running down hill.
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post #57 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

A glider would not work without gravity.


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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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Yes, but not for free. It has potential energy in the form of altitude. Its moving forward because its running down hill.
how does it get up the hill in the first place?

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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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A glider would not work without gravity.
actually I think a glider wouldn't work without apparent wind. And a glider works with thermals... but apparently can travel forward 60 miles and drop 1.

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Last edited by SanderO; 02-18-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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post #60 of 85 Old 02-18-2019
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Re: sailing past close hauled?

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
correct.... but why can't the horizontal sail be rotated? It can... the chord can be any angle... not all will work of course... the luff has to be... should be higher than the leach. no?
You're starting to follow my point. On your horizontal wing sail, directly into the wind, the luff would be slightly higher than the leach, ie the cord indicating the leading edge is slightly higher than the trailing edge, relative to the forward vector of the boat. This is exactly the opposite of a vertical sail on a close haul. Sketch them out. The perpendicular of the cord is pointing aft, not forward like a sail.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 02-18-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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