How many liveaboards pay more? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 26Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 77 Old 01-03-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
T37Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 5,105
Thanks: 107
Thanked 71 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caberg View Post
Some liveaboards just want a cheap place to live and could care less about actually sailing/boating and will not contribute to the good of the marina. I'm sure this is more an issue in some places than others. Perhaps a surcharge is intended to discourage the "cheap rent" seekers.
Agreed... and I have been told that regarding myself as well. Whats more is I see as many if not more neglected boats in clubs or marinas who are not liveaboards. There should most certainly be clear guidelines for slip holders, liveaboard or not.

Shawn


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
T37Chef is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 77 Old 01-03-2016
bell ringer
 
Don0190's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: on way toward New orleans
Posts: 4,129
Thanks: 10
Thanked 109 Times in 102 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post

But... do you pay more because you are a liveaboard? If so, what is the rational?
Because they can and the only thing that really interests a marina is finding a way to charge you for something.
tadavidson likes this.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don0190 is offline  
post #13 of 77 Old 01-04-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,321
Thanks: 82
Thanked 543 Times in 520 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

In our marina, you can live aboard in-season, but not over the winter. No additional charge in-season. Several do it, we are approx 50/50.

You can store your boat in the water over the winter, but you're not permitted to even be aboard overnight. The fresh water is not on, the pumpout is inoperative, fuel dock is close, the docks are loaded with seagull crap and all the dockhands are back to school. I can at least see, if they wanted to allow winter liveaboards, it would cost them more to provide even the basic services, just to keep the place clean. Why wouldn't they charge for that?

In the summer, on the other hand, it's a pretty marginal excess usage of the facilities. I think they want activity and people around. Electricity is probably the biggest variable. We pay a flat fee, but if you were full time or one of those guys that runs their air conditioning 24/7, you are metered and pay your usage.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
 
post #14 of 77 Old 01-04-2016
Kynntana (Freedom 38)
 
gamayun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Oakland
Posts: 970
Thanks: 21
Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

I don't live aboard but have been thinking about it for a long time. For a 38' boat in SF Bay, I can expect to pay around $400+ per month for the slip and another $200 for a liveaboard fee. Pump outs and electricity are extra. Water is usually free, but given our recent drought, it ought to be considered a valuable commodity. I also pay city property taxes on my boat and another tax on the use of the slip. Just like any business, the marina and the cities have something you want. Cost is just a slippery value based on demand and aesthetics.

For what it's worth, I also sail/race my boat just about every week, often more.
shadowraiths and tadavidson like this.

Last edited by gamayun; 01-04-2016 at 02:07 PM.
gamayun is offline  
post #15 of 77 Old 01-05-2016
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,893
Thanks: 76
Thanked 175 Times in 167 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

The quick and easy answer is what would a club, marina be able to change or turn off if they didn't have liveaboards. We wouldn't need snow removal on the docks. We wouldn't need winter water or heated bathrooms. Even though we have well water it is increased use of the pumps to get it. We could turn them off. Look at it more as a user fee. The extra costs should be borne by the users.

While Shawn is a model liveaboard in our club, which to date does not charge more for it, there have been trends amongst liveaboards at our club

. The boats tend to not leave the dock. There is a feeling of homesteading where they try to claim parts of the club grounds as "their" property because it's "their" home forgetting the property is owned by the club and their boat is their owned home. We have had issues with storage trailers being parked on the grounds with motorcycles or interior house furnishings by multiple liveaboards against our rules and having them moved presents confrontational issues. First thing they claim is that they are being discriminated against because they are liveaboards.

In MD it is a way to escape property tax. The argument that's that's in the fee doesn't hold

While Shawn is right some boats are not as " pretty " as his, many of the liveaboards adorn their boats with trees and plamts and deck furniture you wouldn't normally see in a marina without liveaboards.

In our club unlike Shawn who has a po box, most liveaboards have packages delivered to our office

My slip was next to a liveaboard who I used to hear remark when he wasn't aware I was on my boat to other liveaboards, " the weekdays are so sweet here with peace and quiet , I wish these people wouldn't come down and disturb us in our home on the weekends" . That meaning most of us weekend warriors. He also moved is boat for 1 week put of its slip per year.

It's hard to generalize as everyone is different, but most of our liveaboards have been compliant and respectful. That being said our biggest problems with run down boats have come from liveaboards.

Certainly if we had a predominance of liveaboards in the slips the " culture" of our club would change.

Most places here do not allow liveaboards which I am not in favor of. However I have always believed they use more resources and cost our club more money so that there should be a fee. I am not passionate about this and really don't believe it to be an issue worth pushing for in our club.

I do however believe we should have a rule requiring that the boats leave their slips for a couple hours on a monthly basis( sans Dec- March) so we don't have boats permanently affixed to the docks with inoperable engines.
T37Chef likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 01-05-2016 at 02:52 AM.
chef2sail is online now  
post #16 of 77 Old 01-05-2016
snake charmer, cat herder
 
zeehag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: refitting a formosa in exotic tropical locations....
Posts: 2,586
Thanks: 11
Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

san diego and lost angeles i found 100 - 150 usd charge to live on board. i chose a mooring fro 109 usd monthly which became 130 monthly, over time..... no liveaboard fees. pumpout boat on call...yada yada....

left cali for south, and found awesomeness without extra living aboard fees in other areas outside usa. cheaper foodstuffs also.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

formosa 41, cruising tropics


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
zeehag is online now  
post #17 of 77 Old 01-05-2016
TQA
Bombay Explorer 44
 
TQA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,619
Thanks: 0
Thanked 132 Times in 128 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

It is different in the Eastern Caribbean. Most marinas do not charge extra for liveaboards. Caveat my experience with marinas is limited as I avoid them like the plague, noisy, mosquito ridden places, so I might be wrong.

However some boatyards do charge extra for people staying onboard on the hard. $5 US per person per day is common.
TQA is online now  
post #18 of 77 Old 01-05-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
T37Chef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland USA
Posts: 5,105
Thanks: 107
Thanked 71 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

Good post Dave/chef2sail... thank you also.

I would comment on a couple things you mention...

- snow: regardless of liveaboards or not, is it not necessary to keep the docks, roads, etc open so owners and fire department can access boats when needed? I am not certain but I would think this applies regardless?

- heat for bathrooms: doesn't this need to be kept on to keep everything from freezing or can it be winterized?

- I am not trying to escape property taxes... some may, I am living aboard out of necessity at the moment...divorce sucks Fortunately I can, and its the best option for me right now.

MYC is is great place to "live aboard" as it seems well set up for it, winter water for example. Adding an additional fee would be appropriate... but concerned with that there would be the need to provide more resources, sometimes these things backfire...maybe not but.

I never understood why LA's don't leave the dock more? Weird... I guess things get comfortable. I Like Auspicious/Dave's 30 minute rule... If I quote him somewhat correctly "if it takes us more than 30 minutes to get off the dock there is a problem" I like that rule of thumb... as I could see one becoming complacent and forgetting why they have a boat in the first place
Rhapsody-NS27 and deltaten like this.

Shawn


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
T37Chef is offline  
post #19 of 77 Old 01-05-2016
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 5,687
Thanks: 0
Thanked 275 Times in 246 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The quick and easy answer is what would a club, marina be able to change or turn off if they didn't have liveaboards.
Good question. Marinas, even yacht clubs, are businesses and should proceed in a business like fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We wouldn't need snow removal on the docks.
I do not agree. It takes some time pressure off but water saturation during thermal cycling is really bad for dock boards. In the marinas where I lived aboard *I* was usually the first clearing the dock. The staff really liked me. *grin* That kind of relationship pays huge dividends for the liveaboard and the marina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We wouldn't need winter water or heated bathrooms.
There are lots of ways to deal with winter water including water parties and shifting in-water boats around to consolidate service requirements.

Bathrooms are a different thing. You really do need heated bathrooms for 3-season boaters. The marginal cost is keeping them heated which is partially balanced by having to dewater and winterize. A lot depends on where your bath house is and if it is attached to a larger building that is heated anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The boats tend to not leave the dock.
Not unique to liveaboards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
There is a feeling of homesteading where they try to claim parts of the club grounds as "their" property because it's "their" home forgetting the property is owned by the club and their boat is their owned home. We have had issues with storage trailers being parked on the grounds with motorcycles or interior house furnishings by multiple liveaboards against our rules and having them moved presents confrontational issues. First thing they claim is that they are being discriminated against because they are liveaboards.
Certainly a problem. I too have seen homesteading. Vans, station wagons, trailers, and even storage containers show up. This is not unique to liveaboards. Major racing programs do much the same. I suggest that requirements that vehicles be in good running order, insured, and properly registered applied to the entire property are appropriate.

If a group wants special treatment they should expect to pay for it.

If a property allows for it a designated area for boat and storage trailers and a reasonable fee makes sense to me.

Parking is almost always a problem. Paying for a sticker for long-term parking should not be offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
In MD it is a way to escape property tax. The argument that's that's in the fee doesn't hold.
It does hold. The club or marina pays property tax and the cost flows through to slipholders, liveaboard or not, in slip fees. This is that same way that people who rent houses or apartments "pay" property tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
While Shawn is right some boats are not as " pretty " as his, many of the liveaboards adorn their boats with trees and plamts and deck furniture you wouldn't normally see in a marina without liveaboards.
I see a lot of weekend warriors who don't take their boats out with similar accouterments. Rules should apply to everyone. If you don't want anything left out on the docks then address that: dinghies, bikes, chairs, dock boxes, trash, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
In our club unlike Shawn who has a po box, most liveaboards have packages delivered to our office.
USPS PO boxes don't allow package delivery from UPS, FedEx, or DHL. You can get a PO box at a UPS service center. Lots of people, not just liveaboards, like an address to ship bulky items to, particularly in this age of smaller cars. Some things like anchor chain can be much less expensive to ship to a commercial address. I ship to customers at marina addresses all the time and that is for pretty small items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
It's hard to generalize as everyone is different, but most of our liveaboards have been compliant and respectful. That being said our biggest problems with run down boats have come from liveaboards.
Which is a good thing. Not every marina and club is so fortunate.

You left out increased incidence of electrical issues and the increased potential for fire due to charred shore power connectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Certainly if we had a predominance of liveaboards in the slips the " culture" of our club would change.
You bet. There really is (my opinion) some improved security by the presence of liveaboards, and opportunity to respond to facility failures before they cascade. There are also some issues with increased use and presence (parking again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I do however believe we should have a rule requiring that the boats leave their slips for a couple hours on a monthly basis( sans Dec- March) so we don't have boats permanently affixed to the docks with inoperable engines.
"Demonstrate navigable" is a reasonable requirement as long as there is a similarly reasonable space for repairs.
T37Chef likes this.

sail fast and eat well, dave S/V Auspicious

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

beware "cut and paste" sailors


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to SVAuspicious For This Useful Post:
T37Chef (01-05-2016)
post #20 of 77 Old 01-05-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,321
Thanks: 82
Thanked 543 Times in 520 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: How many liveaboards pay more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T37Chef View Post
..... I am living aboard out of necessity at the moment...divorce sucks
Its been a long time, but I've been there. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. Hoping there aren't kids involved. I had two. They have to be the number one priority, if you have them. My mantra was "our divorce can not be their problem". If they are young, don't even let them, let alone ask them, to choose between their parents, ever. My ex and I lived by this and the kids turned out great. Not without a ton of pain.

Just keeping your boat through the distribution of assets would be unusual. All the best.

Quote:
...I never understood why LA's don't leave the dock more? Weird... I guess things get comfortable.....
In our marina, you can't tell by looking, who lives aboard (during the spring-fall season), but there are several. That's because we're not permitted to store things on our decks or even have dock lockers. I like the policy, for this reason. Liveaboards or others, have a tendency to junk up their possessions and the act of preparing to head out for a sail becomes too much work.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for other liveaboards with little ones. Sjøvind Cruising and Sailing with Children 1 08-21-2012 11:28 AM
Soon to be liveaboards Blakleys Introduce Yourself 3 09-20-2011 09:36 PM
OK with Liveaboards in CT Zers Living Aboard 10 02-24-2009 10:33 AM
Boat Sales Tax - To Pay or Not to Pay? LyleRussell Boat Review and Purchase Forum 41 09-06-2007 10:19 AM
looking for nc liveaboards icwwriter herSailNet 0 07-02-2007 05:40 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome