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Livaboard freshwater system maintenance advice sought.

11K views 105 replies 21 participants last post by  colemj 
#1 ·
I'm pretty new to this. Been living aboard since last November.

In Oct, before I left the dock, my freshwater had an odor and bad taste to it. So loaded up the tanks with a bunch of bleach, let it sit for a while, then pumped it all out through the system. After flushing a bit, the water came out tasting like you'd expect water to taste again.

Now it's Jan, and the foul odor/taste is back. Since I'm not at a dock anymore, the bleach and flush is going to be a bit more difficult to do, but I guess I'll have to figure something out.

My question is how typical is this? Do most freshwater systems need bleached every 3 months or so or is this a bad sign?

I'm seriously considering ripping out the entire freshwater system and replacing it this summer while hauled out. And the return of this odor is only making me more determined.

What is the experience of people who have been out there longer? How difficult is it to keep a freshwater system clean and healthy?
 
#2 · (Edited)
My tanks are stainless steel and installed in 1985. I drain them in winter and add some chorox when I fill them. I don't drink the tank water. It is used for cleaning and showers and doesn't smell. I have a water filter and sometimes use this filtered water for making things like rice. The water used for drinking and brushing teeth and cooking comes from the bottled water we store in the dispenser pictured below.

I filter the water going into the tanks regardless at every fill up.
 

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#8 ·
When I bleach+flushed them in Oct I tried scrubbing as well ... but in my case the access ports are so tiny compared to the size of the tanks, I can't really reach much of the inside.

I'm toying with the idea of installing a watermaker this summer ... looks like I'll be able to afford it ... and I'm considering ripping out the entire freshwater system and replacing all of it at the same time I do that. Not sure how much is the original 1979 stuff, but it's clear that a lot of it is very old.
 
#6 ·
There is a good chance it is the hoses as much as the tank. If you decide to replumb, go with PEX - easier to plumb, cheaper, and doesn't grow stuff like the vinyl hose does. Best thing about it is you don't have hose clamps ripping your flesh every time you reach someplace.

Put an inexpensive house filter on the tank output and use a carbon block filter on it. Even clean water in tanks gets a bit of smell and stale taste if not used quickly. The carbon filter will remove that, as well as provide a 1-5um filter (don't go too small on the pore size or your pump will have issues).

Mark
 
#66 ·
There is a good chance it is the hoses as much as the tank. If you decide to replumb, go with PEX - easier to plumb, cheaper, and doesn't grow stuff like the vinyl hose does. Best thing about it is you don't have hose clamps ripping your flesh every time you reach someplace.

Put an inexpensive house filter on the tank output and use a carbon block filter on it. Even clean water in tanks gets a bit of smell and stale taste if not used quickly. The carbon filter will remove that, as well as provide a 1-5um filter (don't go too small on the pore size or your pump will have issues).

Mark
Regarding PEX: Super simple to use. You just need to buy a $25 tool, a hose cutter, a few fittings, and the hose. I would get the clamp system rather than the crimp system. The clamps are stainless steel. The crimps are copper. The SS will not corrode as much as copper. The clamps are also removable (ish).
 
#9 ·
You can prob see where the plastic tanks are stained. You can get long brushes.
It is a true pain, but make the effort.
Again, start fresh.

Id not yet think watermaker until you have spent some time cruising...learning what works for you. If you are solo, you can carry enuf water for months

$s dont always solve problems you perceive.

Get out there for a while. It will become more clear. You will save money
 
#10 ·
When you live in a house, the city does the maintanance for you, you just don't realize it. Now you have to learn the chemistry and do it yourself.

This post is the short version. Clean the tank, filter the inlet to reduce solids, chlorinate, carbon filter, dechlorinate. And don't for get about the bugs crawling in the vent. New stuff won't solve the problem.
Sail Delmarva: Drinking Water Filtration--The Short Version
 
#11 ·
Bleach will kill things, but rarely cleans them off the interior of the water system. The dead stuff just becomes food for the next batch to feed on and accelerates their growth. Also, you may have only killed the surface stuff and the live stuff beneath it took a short while to eat it's way back to the top.

Once the system is actually clean, not just killed, the slight chlorine dosing is essentially what many municipalities do. It fits in that "X dose is considered safe" kind of standard. Like when you can only eat the fish out of a polluted river once per month. I'll pass on consuming anything I can't eat or drink all I want. The good news is that chlorine is very easily removed, with a carbon filter, before you consume it. The only remaining downside is that it's corrosive to metal over time.

From the sounds of it, I'm betting you'll want to replace the hoses. The tank really should be able to be cleaned. A brand new old fashioned wire toilet brush is a good device. You can bend them to reach places. On the other hand, a new poly tank is a nice thing, if you have the money. They aren't too expensive, if it is a standard that one of the larger shops already have the plans to make. Even custom isn't outrageous, IMO. I had a new custom 77 gallon poly holding tank made several years ago and am very happy with it. I don't recall the exact cost, only the lack of feeling abused. That's how I store all boat maintenance episodes in my mind, by pain level.
 
#12 ·
I add bleach to my tanks if they have sat around awhile, just a capful to each 50-gal tank. I have carbon filter at the sink to remove the bleach for drinking water.
 
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#14 ·
the Cheap, Efficient, Mark's Way.

Bung in the cuplett (1oz, 30 mils) of bleach and see what happens before you go shell out beer money and wasting drinking time.

:grin
I fully agree with the point. Don't overdo it or over think it, unless proven necessary. However, I thought the OP told us he already tried this approach and it only worked for a couple of months.
 
#16 ·
On the other hand, 100' of PEX pipe at Home Depot only costs $28. Super easy to run and install. Another $50 for quick connect fittings. Call it $100 total for pipe, fittings, and spares, and there's a new plumbing system.

Old vinyl hose is almost always manky, and no amount of cleaning or bleaching is going to cure it. I just pulled out a 10' fresh water flush line to our watermaker. 5' of it was PEX coupled to 5' of vinyl hose (not my install, don't understand why). The vinyl hose was dark, opaque, and completely sheeted with algae, while the PEX was clean as a whistle.

I've found PEX to pretty much end growth in water lines, although if your water tank is constantly contaminated, then PEX will probably eventually get growth also.

Mark
 
#17 · (Edited)
If you have access to shore water.
Heavily dose tanks. Let sit after running a bit throughout your entire system. Every faucet, shower head, hot water heater if possible. Then drain completely using every outlet for water again. Repeat flush until you don’t taste chlorine. The heavy chlorine should kill everything. The flush should wash out most of the dead itty bitties.
I do this before laying up boat and then drain tanks dry. Unfortunately even when you drain them dry there maybe a bit of water in them. So use RV “100” antifreeze even if it doesn’t freeze in your area. At that high concentration it is cidal. Put in enough so it runs through ever hose/outlet. If you don’t pickle your watermaker with chemicals put 100 antifreeze through it as well. Make sure that’s adequate pickle. I use chemicals so not that familiar.
Before launch another good flush then fill will give you sweet water.
We have a watermaker. We have RO water only going to one tank and either RO water or shore water going to the other tank. It seems nothing grows in the RO tank and it stays sweet. We do this to prevent chlorine getting to the membrane even though I have a carbon filter in line to protect it. Have a whole boat fresh water filter just after the pressure water pump as well. Make sure it’s big as that will help decrease pressure drop across it. Don’t know if it does anything as it remains white.
Watermakers are game changers. Only need to come in for food and much less frequently for fuel. Get to take a daily shower. But it does change your anchoring decisions. Ideally hang out places where water is clean of contamination. Find sediment means at lot of filter changes in New England and absence of meaningful tides with many boats nearby is an issue in Caribbean. Fortunately have ~200g so just wait for a good spot or make water while sailing if conditions permit.
 
#18 ·
As an ex water treatment i feel people go waaaaaaaaaay overboard on the amount of bleach they use. A drinking water standard level would be 1ppm of free chlorine for 1 hour. That will kill anything and is only normally like a 1 tablespoon/capfull of standard bleach*. Even a massive shock treatment for something like Legionella is only 10 ppm. Yet people will add a cup of bleach.


* normally because there are too many unknowns in what bleach strength and chlorine demand is to make a true calulation.
 
#19 ·
Our previous boat had aluminum tanks, so we didn't like chlorine in them, and never treated them in any way. Because we had to replace the tank early on, we know we started with a clean tank. For 14yrs we not only did not treat them, but also used a carbon block filter when filling them, and filled them at a slow rate so the filter could actually work in removing chlorine. When the boat was laid up, the tanks were emptied. Most of the water put in the tanks was RO and filtered rain, but we did take on water throughout the US, Bahamas, E. Caribe, South and Central America, and places between whenever the opportunity presented itself.

There was never any growth in the tank or plumbing (PEX).

Our current boat has a fiberglass tank, but we still don't treat it, and still fill through a carbon block filter. I don't know how the tank has been treated over the previous 14yrs, and haven't opened the tank yet. Before adding a carbon house filter, the water tasted a bit stale, but otherwise fine. The boat had sat for a year in the Caribe with an empty tank. There is no growth in any of the plumbing (PEX).

So maybe you are correct about fearful treatment of tanks. If the tank and plumbing starts clean, it seems pretty easy to keep it that way - particularly if the boat is being actively used. I'm beginning to think that vinyl hoses are the contamination reservoir that keeps reinfecting tanks. Our previous, previous boat had a very simple and short plumbing system with vinyl hoses, basically a 15' run to a galley faucet and another 15' run to a bathroom faucet, but I was always fighting algae and grossness on that one.

Mark
 
#20 ·
We have standard hose. Tanks are integral to the hull so grp with internal potable water coatings.Access plates stainless. Been 7 years now. Tanks still fresh. Think the RO and active, frequent turn over probably has much to do with it. Hoses remain clean and clear. We don’t use chlorine except for the shock treatment described above when boat hauled for new bottom paint/zincs or occasional storage. Otherwise no chlorine.
 
#21 ·
We don’t use much bottled water. Only buy it as a fallback safety measure for passage. So we’re drinking RO water and cooking with it.
The major downside of RO is there’s nothing in it. No trace minerals. Overtime, especially if you have a lot of insensible water loss (sweat/breathing) you may get depleted. We drink coconut water on occasion to keep our electrolytes in order.
 
#22 ·
Lots of good information here. Thanks to everyone.

Like so many things, the situation can be a bit complex. There are really multiple layers of questions.

On the surface, I'm looking for a short-term solution so my water stops smelling.

However, I'm also in the process of planning what projects I'm going to do when I haul out for hurricane season. And the fact that I'm having issues makes me wonder if I should have "replace the freshwater system" at the top of the list. I have old, vinyl plumbing, so I'm thinking it's worth it to replace it all with PEX. While I _could_ scrub out the tank with a bent brush and some determination, there are other problems with it ... like the fact that the outlet is on the side, thus it's impossible to fully drain it without opening the access ports. And the fact that the access ports leak, so I have to be really careful when filling or it overflows and makes a mess.

I'll try adding a bit of bleach on a regular basis for the remainder of this season ... and will continue to mull over what I want to do this summer.
 
#23 ·
Leaking accesx ports would be a biggy alarm for me.
I would play with it to learn..the why.
If not tank deformation, then its gasket/thread seal...which can be solved cheaply.

Hose replacement and tank cleaning..is just what it is..not rocket work

Dont let all of the projects make you feel overwhelmed.
Stay the course and it will be right
Lots of mini and biggy hurdles...tis life
Youre there
 
#24 ·
I have three 200lt tanks and use them in rotation filling with chlorinated mains water as I change the tank over. When first returning to the boat after a long break there is a bad smell so I run water from each tank to clear the pipes and add fresh water . From then rotate the tanks, no filter system at present but going to install a carbon filter this year. Never have used the water for drinking cold but do use tide it for cooking and hot drinks. Never had a problem to date in three years with this boat. Used the same practice with previously boats with no issues in 30 years.
 
#25 ·
Having grown up on boats, with disgusting water systems, I'm totally sympathetic. In fact, even the tank disinfectants in the 60s and 70s made the water disgusting. I think it may have been iodine based. Absolutely nothing goes in my water system, other than filtered water (I use a high volume coconut shell carbon hose filter) and occasional chlorine. My system is blown out for the winter, I never use anti-freeze. It's a full-on child based psychosis.

I'm sure I'd replace the hoses with Pex, especially if I was going to drink the tank water. We have Pex. Lord knows how your prior owner maintained the potable water system.

The tank is a field call. I can't see it. The leaking gets my attention, but one would think that could be repaired. One big advantage of having a new tank made, is you can specify where you want the cleanout, if it's not currently in an optimal place.

Water is a basic necessity. I think it is a place to be sure is right.
 
#26 ·
I believe there is really no reason to drink stored tank water. In the most seaside locations bottle or even healthy clean tap water is available. If you buy bottled water, it's not terribly expensive considering how much we drink.

Tanked water needs to be stored in a clean system and members have made many good suggestions how to achieve this. Discard and replace old hoses. Clean the tank if possible, use chlorine to disinfect the tanks and hoses periodically. There is not reason for a clean, bacteria free system to have any unpleasant odors. Used tanked water for cleaning ONLY if possible. If you must use the tank water for cooking.... used it through a filter and boil it. Always use a filter on the hose when you fill your tanks. Don't leave the tank water sitting... use it and refill. Water in most places is free.

Where water is not free it makes sense to have a water maker. Segregate drinking/cooking water from cleaning water. If you are off the grid set up a rain water collection system.

Clean water requires some thinking and work. The pex plumbing presented here sounds like a great idea! I've had Shiva for 35 years and the above are my practices and we never had foul smelling water in the system. My tanks are stainless steel and have no access ports. When I need to tank up I head to a fuel dock which usually not a problem, and we bring a few gallon jugs of bottled water to drink each time we go to the boat.

Having clean water is not hard to manage.
 
#27 ·
I believe there is really no reason to drink stored tank water. In the most seaside locations bottle or even healthy clean tap water is available. If you buy bottled water, it's not terribly expensive considering how much we drink........
While we could drink our tank water, we generally don't. I don't trust all dock supplies, I doubt they are tested for potability. A touch of chlorine will kill most bugs, but I also worry about lead or other contaminants. Probably overthinking it. We cook with it, without reservation. We drink and make coffee with gallon jugs of bottled water. I repurpose the jugs as oil collection, or other uses. I even cut the bottoms off to make drip trays or parts collectors, during projects.

However, I plan to drink one gallon per day per person in hot weather. We drink just a bit less than that. It adds up for a cruise and storage can be an issue. For really going on an extended cruise, I think one needs to think about drinking tank water. If one's system is clean and they have a water maker, it's a gimme. If anything, you need to add minerals back somehow.
 
#29 ·
In the tropics, I drink (and sweat) over a gallon a day. If exerting, then 2 gallons a day. In many places in the world, bottled water isn't available, or very costly for 0.5L bottles priced as soda. Even if it was free, there is no place to store enough bottled water for more than a couple of days.

One shouldn't be afraid to drink their tank water - just get the plumbing system to snuff. Our tank water run through the plumbing tastes the same as from straight out of the watermaker, and we haven't had any ill effects from drinking it for 17yrs.

However, we are very cautious about accepting tank drinking water from others. We get so used to clean, tasteless water that we just assume it is all that way. Have had some nasty surprises when offered a drink of water on other boats. So it can be a problem, but it also is a solvable problem. There is nothing unique about our last two boats that give us drinkable tank water - clean tank and plumbing, no leaks, PEX pipe everywhere, carbon filter shore water going in, carbon filter tank water coming out.

There is no need to add minerals to RO water. This belief is a misguided one formed from procedures at commercial RO facilities. RO systems used on boats do not produce water depleted of all minerals. Most of them, depending on the waters they are operated in, produce more minerals than found in shoreside tap water. Any minerals that are depleted are easily provided in a normal diet.

For example, we are in a brackish river right now, and our watermaker produces 100ppm water here. The shore water is 50ppm. In Long Island Bahamas last year (very salty waters), we produced 350ppm water, while the shoreside RO plant water supply was 10ppm. Nowhere have we found our watermaker making purer water than available at shoreside facilities - for those shoreside facilities providing drinkable water.

Even drinking pure mineral-free rain water is no issue - a normal diet takes care of the needed minerals.

Don't fear your tank, and don't fear your watermaker.

Mark
 
#30 ·
Watermakers give less troubles the more they’re used. Where we are it seems good practice to avoid shore water. Often heavily chlorinated to the point you can smell it (southern bays of Grenada had pipes fail. No shore water for over a week. When replaced they heavily chlorinated for quite sometime). Also tends to have more sediment. (Water in oriental had slight brown tinge).
Agree with Mark don’t fear RO. Our watermaker is often below 100ppm and never above 150ppm. It’s an isolated example but wife was having leg cramps at night. Started drinking coconut water on occasion. Cleared. When home she wasn’t getting cramps. Would just occur after being on boat for several months. She’s on no diuretics or other salt wasting meds. Only apparent variable is water. Agree one would think diet would provide sufficient trace elements. We tend to be more active on the boat and sweat more. Perhaps lost of minerals increases. But we both like coconut water and when bought in the big bottles isn’t a big expense.
 
#31 ·
What Mark wrote.... When I lived aboard in the Eastern Caribe I used a water maker or tanked up at the fuel dock and had no problems. Returning to the NE I simply schlep water in gallon containers. We can afford it and prefer it because we don't worry. Wifey likes to drink Pelligrino so I need to schelpp that!
 
#33 ·
I know humping liquids is a PITA. Fortunately I don't have many guests who need to be topped up. We probably don't drink enough water, certainly not a gallon / person a day. Sure you drink and need more fluid when it's hot or your active.

I found this:

Adults
The current IOM recommendation for people ages 19 and older is around 131 ounces for men and 95 ounces for women. This refers to your overall fluid intake per day, including anything you eat or drink that contains water, like fruits or vegetables.

Of this total, men should get around 13 cups from beverages. For women, it’s 9 cups.
 
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