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Big Freakin' Sails

594K views 3K replies 293 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
Okay - this thread is for people that ACTUALLY LIKE Big Freakin' Sails (note for morons: the verb, not the noun). BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. And herein lies the rub...and the reason I need to explain a couple of things so people don't start foaming at the mouth right off the bat.

There has been a tremendous amount of hubbub over this "philosophy" in another thread - but that thread apparently "came with a lot of baggage" - to the point that the topic itself got lost in the fog of war. So, this is an attempt to start cleanly.

It must be understood that the love for the adventure and excitement of hard sailing is just as valid and robust in the newbie as it is in the big-sailing old salt. The gap between the two is experience and knowledge. And the goal here is not to fill that gap by quashing the spirit of adventure and excitement with a deluge of cynicism and technicality - but to help us all learn, if and when the time comes, how to better handle that moment when mother nature starts rising beyond our sailing abilities. Because if you keep sailing - it will happen, period. And as you'll see, it can get very frightening very quickly.

For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable.

Therefore, the BFS factor of a newbie experiencing a hard heel and wayward helm for the very first time is just as exciting, important, and valuable (in BFS terms) as the old salt battling a 50 knot gale. It's just about the attitude with which the exploit is approached and remembered - and taken into account as they go back out for more. There are great stories and valuable lessons in both experiences - as well as great opportunities for good hearted slams on the brave posters (which is valuable as well). That's BFS.

So, to be clear this thread is JUST AS MUCH FOR THE SAILING NEWBIE (of which I am one) as it is for the old salt. It's a place to tell your story, listen to others', learn some lessons, and discuss the merits or detractions of Big Freakin' Sails.

The following inaugural BFS stories illustrate what this thread is all about. As I said, I'm a newbie - and you see my first BFS story below. You can then compare that with the other great BFS stories thereafter (sometimes edited to protect the innocent) which I think are great tales from great sailors; they cover the spectrum of "pushing the limits". Then, hopefully, you'll throw down some BFS of your own (either your own story, stories you admire, or stories that are just flat-out lies but with great BFS value - whatever).

Now, let's have some fun...shall we?
 
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#845 ·
Actually, Fred is far more amazing than his dad, since he does BFS in a boat that would fit down the companionway on his dad's boat. :)
 
#847 ·
A new horse may run faster..but an old horse knows his way around the track better...

Fred will be by far better than me...as he will not make my mistakes...I am here making sure of that....

however, where Fred is now..his dad was 33 years ago, with worse heavier boats..remember that...
 
#849 ·
But do you have photos of it??? We've got photos of Fred out there in his Opti, mainly thanks to a very proud poppa... :)
 
#850 ·
Guys, the Fred in the story was not the same Fred as the one who sails his Opti in high winds.
 
#852 ·
GUI-

I was asking if you had photos of you sailing at the age of 10...
 
#854 ·
G, that was freakin' sweet. That route - around both horns - oh, man. Those are some BFSers for sure. Thanks for the link.

Now read the whole thread for crying out loud! Or at least click through the best of the best on the page 85 summary.

I'm still envious of your red square.
 
#859 ·
Bubb - SWEET video! Man that looks fun. How fast do you think those guys are going? They look like their cranking. Maybe even as fast as Giu!

BTW - what's "nds"? I know Sway may starting pissing saltwater at my ignorance here, but I've not seen this before. All the Vendee boats' speed is being measured in "nds".

You guys should see the interactive map at their site. It's pulling the GPS data from each boat for "real time" tracking. It has weather overlays, routing, play back. Very sweet.
 
#861 ·
Bubb - SWEET video! Man that looks fun. How fast do you think those guys are going? They look like their cranking. Maybe even as fast as Giu!
Smack, the open 70's can reach close to 30 knots and maintain 20+. What gets me is the wakes these boats throw and the lines the drivers hold in the seas they are sailing in.. (straight as an arrow) It is poetry in motion!!!
 
#860 ·
Those guys are cranking! It's humbling to think what BFS means to some people.
 
#862 ·
Yeah! But that's what makes it so freakin' cool! The "BFS Continuum" - it's ALWAYS big to each sailor 'til they've been through it a few times - then they get confident and are hit by something bigger and wet their foulies! All the while, there are still others out there that think those same conditions are not all that scary. And so on.

You gotta LOVE sailing, man!
 
#864 ·
HOLY CRAP! I just stumbled across an INSANE BFS...in the Cruiser forum no less! It was so good, it even had Giu crying' MDB before there was MDB. Of course, the evidence then came out and quieted the crowd...

I call this Eastie the "Big Kahuner" - check out his mojo:

In 1974 my wife, Kitty, and I were sailing from St Thomas to New York in July. We were completing a three year circumnavigation in our 30 foot Allied Seawind Ketch. Half way between Hatteras and Bermuda, we got hit by a hurricane and at 0200 July 14, while lying ahull in 85 kts of wind, a huge wave came and we fell off the top of it. When we hit the water it seemed as though the whole boat exploded. Actually the main hatch was blown off, as were the teak grab rails on the cabin top, the spray dodger, the wind-vane self-steering device and the stanchions on the lee side were flattened against the cabin top. When we righted, the water was up to the level of the bunks. Luckily we had the most efficient bilge pump in the world, ...a frightened woman with a bucket! While Kitty got us bailed dry, I bolted a piece of plywood over the companionway hatch opening. There was no time to even think about how much peril we were in. We just did what we had to and by 1100 the next day the wind was down to a mere 35 kts.

First, we always keep our life raft on the floor in the cockpit and have a piece of plywood supported by fids fastened to either side of the cockpit well jut below the sail locker hatches. Had the life raft been kept on deck it would have been torn off the cabin top by the force of the water. It was that piece of plywood we used to cover the companionway hatch that was ripped off.

The main boom, which had been sheeted tight to the mizzen mast, was severely bent. Using a block and tackle secured to the toe-rail and the boom we were able to almost straighten it out. By 1200 (the knockdown was at 0200) the wind was down to 35 kts and we were able to set a storm jib, a reefed main and the mizzen. (I believe that we did not lose the rig because we had re-rigged in New Zealand with galvanized rigging three sizes larger than what was on there as it was the only wire available at the time)

With that rig we sailed into New York harbor and after cleaning up the engine, I was able to get it started (the engine was an 18 hp Albin diesel that I could hand crank) to get through Hells gate and around to City Island. The next day we sailed to Westport CT our home port and spent the rest of the summer fixing our 30 foot Allied Seawind Ketch "Bebinka" and in the fall we sailed her back to St Thomas to spend another winter in the Caribbean. Below (if I have figured out how to do this, I have posted a picture of what the interior looked like the morning after the knockdown


Here is what the deck looked like after the knockdown.
Easties - if this doesn't give you guys a big push for the Cup - nothing else will!
 
#865 ·
Okay SmackDaddy, here's Paloma's BFS adventure. Pictures of her back in port, go to the photo gallery and search Paloma.
Thursday March 06, 2008, three of us, all seasoned blue water sailors sailed Paloma, my Bristol 29.9, out of Port Isabel and around the bottom of South Padre Island, just North of the Rio Grande River and the Mexican border, laying for Freeport about 250 miles to the ENE. It was the perfect sailing weather - we were in shorts and polo shirts, on a broad reach in 15 knot SE winds, beautiful 5-7 foot seas and 70 degree weather - the only thing missing was a Jimmy Buffett CD on the stereo.
Later in the day we got a Coast Guard weather alert, small craft immediately make for the nearest port, there was a Northerly cold front (the one that dumped all the snow in mid-west mid-week) moving our way at 35 miles per hour packing internal winds of 50-60, gusting higher, seas quickly building to over 20 feet. Paloma is a not a small craft, but a second-generation
Bristol, built and equipped to go anywhere in any weather, and since the weather report was coming from Coast Guard South Padre Island, we thought we could head more easterly and possibly get on the other side of al least the brunt of the storm. No such luck, around 6:30pm we got hit full force by the front, coming like a freight train. It slammed us from a 15 degree heel to port through a 100 degree arc, down to starboard port lights in the water all the way up to the handrails and the sails in the water before we rounded up into the wind and could start the engine and start dropping sail. On the initial hit, the main, still dumping water, hung up in the spreaders and tore, at the same time we lost cotter pins on the port and starboard upper stays and we couldn't haul the main more than about 3/4 of the way down. Then as bad luck and Murphy's Law would have it, a jib sheet got of control and went under the boat, tangling in the prop, stopping the engine. Now came the decisions not in the "game plan".
We made the only possible decision, to turn south and run bare poles before the storm. From the point we turned, about 35-40 miles NE of the
Rio Grande, we screamed down wind in what we thought were 18 - 20 foot following seas (later the Coast Guard told us they were 28 - 30 feet) and winds 50-60 and gusting over 60 ( a Force 10 storm, precisely as promised by the Coast Guard) for 36 hours. The stern and bimini were plenty of sail and it was a wild ride being pushed along by the seas, hitting over 10mph (from the GPS) when sliding down the face of the seas. It was a strain to keep Paloma tracking, so we couldn't stay on the helm more than an hour at a time and we knew if we turned beam to the wind, we would likely broach. When anyone went below for an all too short, one-hour rest, they could only nap on the cabin sole - even that was comfortable after two hours in the cockpit. The winds were cold, but when waves broke into the cockpit, the water was warm. We kept wondering when the storm would abate - actually we just kept wondering if we were going to end up in Vera Cruz.
When the winds finally abated and shifted back to SE, we were about 135 miles down and 70 miles east of the Mexican coastline - we had been blown 180 miles off our original rhumb line, no engine and only a 110 working jib. During the short calm of the wind shift, we untangled the line around the prop, by starting the engine in neutral then putting the engine in reverse and pulling like crazy on the line trying to unwind it - after two tries, thank goodness it worked. We now had a working jib and an engine (if we needed it) - not a bad combination to turn and run North in what ended up being a much more comfortable 15-20 knot SE winds and 8-10 foot seas - still a chore to keep her on track with only a working jib and making hull speed and better when shoved by the following seas, but easily manageable.
The closest <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">US</st1:country-region> landfall was
<st1:place w:st="on">South Padre Island</st1:place> about 135 miles NNW and by mid-day Sunday we were in sight of the buildings on the island.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
 
#868 ·
Very nice Giu. You are keeping this thread alive in December. Wait, aren't you in Wisconsin?
 
#869 ·
After much deliberation and thought, Alex has decided to relocate his family and the s/v Giuettea to Montana so they too can enjoy the delightful thing we here call Winter.

After maybe a week or two of this winter thing they too will come to the conclusion that WINTER SUCKS
 
#872 · (Edited)
Ahhhhh....75 degrees today. Steady 20-25, with frequent gusts to 36. Nothin' but good times baby. Biggest wind I've been in to date - and I think I'm kinda diggin' this stuff.

We obviously humiliated the windsurfer dude with our blinding speed and sailing prowess.

I wonder what this would be like with real waves? Hmmm.



And some nutjob in a Hunter kept getting his spreaders wet with just a furled head sail. We just sailed a slow circle around him and taunted him mercilessly...you can just make out the boat's name if you look closely - "Sailaway". Heh-heh.

 
#874 ·
Hey Smackie,
Nice photos of your lake. Nice winds too. That windsurfer must have been cursing you as you sailed circles around him in your Catalina 27! I have sailed a windsurfer in over 15 knot breezes so I know who was running circles around whom as long as the windsurfer dude wasn't wiping out doing his tacks or gibes. If you really have the need for speed I suggest you try windsurfing sometime as it is a blast once you master it but is harder to master then many things.
You did not say whether or not you had your main reefed down even a little. On my Tartan 27' in those kinds of wind our boat handles better and flatter with a reef in the main and still hits hull speed. None of the photos gives away your angle of heel but does show the Hunter with only partial jib heeled way over. IMHO he would have sailed faster and flatter with a reefed main and jib then just the genoa.
Many people like the genoa only approach to sail trim but for me and my boat we both prefer to use both main and jib reefed and furled a bit. Of course it can be fun to bury the rail and test the chain plates and rigging by using full sails in winds like you had but it is also good practice to go through the reefing exercise in preparation for even stronger winds.
Sounds like a fun sail. So, did you reef?
 
#875 ·
... If you really have the need for speed I suggest you try windsurfing sometime as it is a blast once you master it but is harder to master then many things...
Agree windsurfing is tough if you don't get a lesson. It's a LOT easier if you have a lesson than trying to figure it out yourself.
 
#876 ·
Hey wuffles - what I do I wouldn't necessarily call "sailing". But it'll do.

Caleb - yeah - that windsurfer was furious.....ly sailing circles around me. I learned to windsurf in Fiji. It was okay - but I found it too hard to drink my rum and surf at the same time so I gave it up. As for "reefing"...I've heard that term before. What does it mean again?
 
#877 ·
Smacky,
I have to agree about windsurfing and enjoying your rum or beverage of choice. It takes a lot of exertion by many muscles to keep you going on a windsurfer and even a small amount of alcohol would make my muscles want to give up sooner and head back to the beach for a refill and call it a day. That is certainly one of the beautiful things about keel boating in that you usually only have to spend a lot of energy over short periods. Keeping drinks from sloshing around the cockpit and decks is one good reason for reefing the sails on your boat. It sounds like the only things that were 'reefed up' on the boat were you and your crew! Wish I could have been there and helped you properly reef!
Not to harp on the 'Mr. Safety' stuff but just wait till the winds get a bit more furious then what you were out in. You really need to know how to reef the sails before you actually have to do it.
That photo with the windsurfer in it shows the surface of the water pretty clearly that indicates wind speeds of well over 25 knots or so. We had slightly higher winds and approximately the same distance from shore back in Nov. on Bene505's boat and there were 4 - 6' swells.
Keep on smackin'.
 
#878 ·
Okay, okay, Caleb - I reefed. Okay? I reefed. I am Smackdaddy - and I'm a POS. Heh-heh.

We were flying only a single-reefed main. It was actually very mellow and controllable. And the traveler finally started to make sense. So I guess you guys may be on to something.

It was pretty educational watching the dude in the Hunter get thrown around while we were taking it easy and hammering Sailor Jerrys.

Had I not had a hank-on jib, I would have been tempted to unfurl a patch of headsail to rub it in a bit. But it stayed in the bag. All in all it was a confidence builder. I liked the challenge of being out in big wind. It makes you pay attention.

Even so, I still respect you guys that actually have to deal with waves on top of those kinds of winds (Chall, George, Wuffles, Valiente, Skip, Bene, DDG, etc.). 2 footers in that kind of blow is pure luxury.

I may pretend I don't listen to you guys - but sometimes I actually take your advice. Sometimes.

PS - T, do you think this qualifies us "Others" (i.e. - lake sailors) for another point or two? I mean, we are sucking in the standings!
 
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