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Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

70K views 579 replies 37 participants last post by  colemj 
#1 · (Edited)
For quite a while now there has been a huge interest in multihull cruising boats. At recent Annapolis Boat Shows there has been almost an equal area of water devoted to big multihulls as there has been to monohulls. There seems to be an equal number of multihull boat reviews in the major sailing magazines like Cruising World and Sail.

For some folks, multihulls seem to be the only way to go. For others they hold no appeal. For some on both sides of the mono and multi worldview, this topic is treated with near religious fervor. This thread was created to allow a civil discourse on a broad range of topics related to multihulls.

Hopefully this thread will provide a place for such topics as:
-Introduction and discussion of interesting new (or old) Multihull models
-Perceived 'whys and wherefores' of Multihull popularlity
-Multihull Technical issues
-Safety and seaworthiness
-Why you like or dislike multihulls
-experiences with Multihulls
-And other general Multihull related discussions.

While there are bound to be differences of opinions (and those are welcome within this thread and within SailNet in general), and bound to be some random amounts of thread drift, what will not be tolerated is personal attacks or dismissive comments.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
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#28 ·
Slightly different take on it - I like sailing, motorcycling, and flying. All three involve a tri axial motion, a balancing of forces, a poetry of motion where my skill translates into this equation. It is not so much about burying the rail as it is that.

That said, I'd rather be sailing a cat some day than not sailing.
We're a lot alike then. And I'd suggest...you need one of these...



Or better yet...one of these...

 
#30 ·
Now this is an interesting reflection of this discussion about monos and multis. Though I'm not a fan of their video series, Paul and Sheryl Shard of Distant Shores have over 100K miles sailing and living aboard since the '80s. Their first boat was a Classic 37 that took a complete refit...



Then came a Southerly 42...



Then a Southerly 49...



Then a new Southerly/Discovery* 48 (which has the Hunter arch by the way - nice)...



*Now, for the tie-in. Discovery bought Southerly - so another mono builder bites the dust. But Discovery also has the Bluewater Catamaran brand.



And when you think about the sailing abilities of and approaches to these two boat types - it actually makes a lot of sense for Discovery to have these two lines of boats.

Here is this couple covering an Atlantic crossing on a Bluewater 50...



The first 8 seconds gives you a very good idea of how stable these cats are in big seas. But let's evaluate its seaworthiness based on past discussions of what it takes to survive out there...

1:42 - Oh boy, Capta will love the fact that this particular "roomaran" has the hot tub! No circular staircase though.
2:18 - Not just in-hull portlights - but freakin' picture windows! Death.
2:26+ - ZERO proper seaberths - death.
2:33 - HEATED TOWEL RACKS IN THE HEAD? WTH?!?!?!
2:38 - Angry sea ready and waiting to bust out those in-hull lights and kill everyone inside. Death.
2:50 - Dual headsails - good. In-mast main - death.
2:57 - Swept-back spreaders and no backstay - death and dismasting.
5:18+ - Interior tour of the last thing you'll ever see before dying. NO PROPER SEABERTHS!
8:42+ - Exterior tour of what will be underwater when she fails to right herself and breaks the deal!
9:15 - Hot tub baby!
9:50+ - Selling their stuff.

And here is the footage of the boat failing and everyone dying...



It's hard to watch...

1:48 - You can see where the boat was already falling apart. A bad omen.
3:53 - You can see the diamond stays and swept-back spreaders - with no backstay. Did they rip off Hunter? This mast will NEVER make it across the Atlantic - or at least the main will be in tatters.
5:39 - Where are the fiddles on those countertops? And why are you people strapped into the galley?
7:03 - They haul in a nice catch for dinner. A dirty filter.
8:24 - More boring cooking - no Flying Chefs.
9:00 - The boat begins to sink and everyone tries to figure out how to staunch the flow of water. Panic sets in...and the lady eats another cinnamon roll.
9:50 - They ignore the emergency have steak and wine as they await their fate. No one is even holding onto the wine bottle to keep it from falling over!?!?!
10:12 - Drunk on wine as the boat sinks, they put the assym up - hoping to make Tortola before they slip beneath the waves.

Oh good lord there looks to be 3 of these videos. Let's just jump the end to see they went down...



1:50 - He gives an overview of the boat (a 50'er designed for couples).
3:16 - Cake. With seagull crap on it. And stuff all over the counters - unsecured - AT SEA!?!?!
4:05 - Very dangerous galley protocol. The pan isn't even in the tongs!
4:15 - Good lord they cooked the poodle. It must getting bad.
7:39 - Still waiting for the F12 storm. You know it's coming.
7:55 - Dude talks about out of 8 crossings, this is the lightest wind ever...proving that catamarans are safer.
8:40 - A look at the nav station as alarms are sounding all over the place with that water streaming in from the cheap escape hatch.
9:26 - The galley at night. He's barely able to stand up from the horrible motion of the catamaran.
10:00 - He brags about the battery bank and everything being able to be run off AC inverters. And 3 fridge-freezers. What couple needs that at sea when your fighting for your lives?
10:20 - He points out the obvious ridiculousness of standard, comfortably living room chairs on a proper ocean going vessel.
11:57 - Finally the F12 comes. Oh never mind.
12:50 - The seas come up at least. And that lady is still nonchalantly cooking like she's on a cat or something!
13:32 - Finally the boobies come out!

Wait - LANDFALL!?!?! It's only been 21 days and no one is dead!! They're just fatter and more well-rested!?!?! How can that be?!?!? Have they never heard of SN?

What a let down.

PS - You can compare this crossing with their other videos on their Southerly's. I'll take the Bluewater, thanks.
 
#31 ·
And on the other end of the spectrum - here's how to break a cat...even while "coastal cruising"...



..put up all the canvass possible in very strong winds and crank everything down as tight as you can. Oh SNAP!

I honestly think they were flying that windward hull. No joke. I have a very strong hunch these guys were mono sailors and had no clue what they were doing.

"Hold my beer and let's dip a rail!"

Unbelievable. Even so, the boat kept them safe. And they have 2 engines to get them home.
 
#32 ·
Here is a great summation of cat vs. mono ocean sailing from a delivery/crew guy who had only done passages on monos before taking this Outremer 45 across.



More substantiation of what I've been hearing from most who do passages on these boats after sailing monos. And I don't even think Outremer paid this guy off.

BTW - the guy is Ryan Helling. And to show that he knows a thing or two about offshore sailing and racing...

In the 2006 and 2012 Vic-Maui races I crewed on the Santa Cruz 52 VOODOO CHILD and J/145 DOUBLE TAKE, in both races we won line honors and took first overall trophies.
 
#33 ·
Thank you Chall - I believe I will...

Here's an interesting look at very similar sea-states and how a cat and mono handle them while crossing the Atlantic. Both use very similar dual headsails..

A Lagoon 440...


And a Beneteau O46 (with an ex-VOR racer)
 
#34 ·
This new video just came out from SLV. It's a fantastic example of 2 people sailing an Outremer 45 in all kinds of conditions. See for yourself...



I honestly think there is a significant safety factor on cats simply in the crew not being as stressed or fatigued on passages (lack of sleep always takes its toll, yes - but the levels are way lower here). Look at her interview at about 4:25 as for what the boat is like in rough seas.

Another important factor in this is that these two are still learning how to sail this 45' cat. And the boat is doing very, very well to meet them and keep them safe...pretty easily actually. Riley's email at 11:15 talks about their hitting 22 knots! surfing (though he talks earlier about why he wasn't concerned with it), and a mild gybe at 17 knots - with him asking Outremer's advice on boat/sail handling at these speeds. Basically, he's saying the boat has handled it well and he hasn't been concerned - and just wonders if he should be. It will be great to hear back what he is told. This is really good stuff.

And this is why I'm going cat. No-brainer.
 
#35 ·
There we go. I think that was most of my part of the multi conversation from the Oyster thread. I deleted all my posts there as I move them here. So, although it's a bummer that it's only half the conversation, I trust everyone is now pleased and we can get back to discussing the coolest boats on the ocean as far as I'm concerned.

Goodnight.
 
#36 ·
As promised, two pictures of the cats I'm playing with.. A Prout 38 and a Lagoon 38. Of course a proper sea going boat in the background....
 

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#37 ·
#39 ·
We'll stick with our 45 year old mono for the following reasons; speed, soft ride, load carrying capability and self rescue feature of a ballasted hull. My wife does not like the motion of multi's and while I like some of the big cats I'm afraid our sailing style would lead us to a Leopard sort of ending.
 
#43 ·
You mean the benefits such as
unsinkability ( for most but not all catamarans)
Seaworthiness
Performance
Shallow draft
Lack of heel, which is enjoyed by not only the high heeled ladies
Lack of rolling in an anchorage
Lack of rolling in your typical downwind circumnavigation. (I hate having chafe spots on my ears from sleeping)
Redundancy ( 2 engines, 2 rudders)
Great view of your surroundings from the salon
Not having to strap yourself into the galley
Reaching your destination feeling refreshed and not like you went 5 rounds with Mike Tyson
And yes, the wife may actually go sailing with you[emoji16]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#42 ·
Hopefully this thread will provide a place for such topics as:
-Introduction and discussion of interesting new (or old) Multihull models
-Perceived 'whys and wherefores' of Multihull popularlity
-Multihull Technical issues
-Safety and seaworthiness
-Why you like or dislike multihulls
-experiences with Multihulls
-And other general Multihull related discussions.
Man, this thread is going to go everywhere. Seems like it should be a forum topic, and the listed items examples of possible threads within that forum.

Mark
 
#46 ·
It is good to have perspective on these things. While the manufacturer called it a "performance cruiser", it was designed and built as an all-out racing boat. It was a foiling boat built light with a huge sail plan and only a minimalist interior (its main cabin is just a small doghouse). It was crewed by professional racers, and built for campaigning in races.

Likewise, the Sig 45 and many other performance boats should not be considered "cruising cats", even though they are marketed this way.

In a similar vein, the Pogo 36 is marketed as a cruising monohull, but I bet most here wouldn't consider it such.

Mark
 
#48 ·
No doubt, we need to be wary of the marketing material in circulation. It can not and should not be accepted at face value. Questioning marketing material makes sense. Accepting marketing material at face value without questioning it, could very well result in being upside down in a 53 foot catamaran.
 
#47 ·
#54 ·
While doing 20+ knots is on the extreme end I still think regularly going 10+ knots in my 32' live aboard cruiser leaving much larger monohulls in my wake would put a big grin on my face.

Sailing Catamarans - Eclipse - 9.9m performance cruiser

Are there any production cats similar to this Richard Woods design?
 

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#57 · (Edited)
I wanted to circle back around to this apparent fear of capsize. I've already posted above the video of the capsize of the G4. There's no question that boat capsized and it didn't come back up on its own.

Arc just posted another example of this catamaran that also capsized and didn't come back up...





But so that you understand some context about both of these boats, it is made very clear in the G4 video that the professional skipper and crew were intentionally pushing that boat on foils to see what it would do. It is also clear (visually and confirmed by the skipper) that the reason the boat went over is that they had a problem releasing the mainsheet. If you have any time at all on a beachcat you understand how this can be a real issue.

As for the FUJIN, the Bieker 53, she was also racing in the RORC Caribbean 600. And to give you some context of how hard this crew pushes this boat, here you go...



So, it's pretty clear to anyone with an open mind that neither of these boats/use-cases have anything whatsoever in common with cruising. So to use them as examples of what can happen to a cruising mutli is a bit like using DRUM or CHEEKI RAFIKI or even VIRBAC PAPREC 3 to say that you should fear cruising monos. There's just no logical correlation if you're at all serious about the subject.

On the other hand you have LEOPARD in the video posted elsewhere...



Again, definitely a cruising cat (Chris White Design)...and definitely upside down. Now, I think this was posted earlier, but here is a superb write-up by Charlie Doane on the incident...

https://www.sailfeed.com/2016/11/atlantic-57-capsize-more-details-on-the-fate-of-leopard/

A critical part of that article is this...

Chris White has already received a preliminary meteorological assessment from Jennifer Francis, a research professor at Rutgers University (also a friend and an Atlantic catamaran owner), who reviewed the atmospheric records for the relevant time and place and concluded conditions in the area were in fact conducive to the formation of a tornadic vortex.



Graphic prepared by Jennifer Francis. Her conclusion, transmitted to Chris White: "It all seems to add up to a twisting phenomenon, not a microburst."

Discussing the event with Charles Nethersole, it really did sound to me like the purest piece of bad luck a bluewater sailor could ever hope to encounter, as though God himself, with no warning, had suddenly decided to poke you with a finger and squash you like a bug.
So to call this event a "squall" is pretty far off the mark. You can read through the rest of the thread and draw your own conclusion.

BUT - there is another issue here that IS of some concern...a second Chris White Design ANNA also capsized in what was reported as a "squall" several years earlier...

https://www.chriswhitedesigns.com/what-we-can-learn-from-anna-s-capsize-by-chris-white

The report from Anna was the squall did not look any different than the others. But the last wind reading they noticed was 62 knots. That's a lot of wind. And they had the same sail up as Javelin did in the squall I just mentioned, a single reefed main and the full self tacking jib. Keep in mind that power in the wind increases as the square of the velocity. Doubling the velocity from 20 to 40 kts increases the pressure on the sails by FOUR times. Tripling the wind velocity from 20 to 60 kts increases the wind pressure by NINE times.

Reefing not only reduces the sail area but removes sail area from up high where the wind pressure exerts the most leverage trying to turn the boat over. The typical catamaran mainsail is large with a very rounded roach that increases the sail area near the top of the sail where it exerts the most heeling force. The combination of both reducing the sail area and reducing its height by reefing has a dramatic effect on stability, allowing the boat to stand up to much stronger gusts.
So LEOPARD in the video above is the second CWD that has capsized in high winds. Why? The ANNA story seems to clearly be on the sailors having too much sail up. And Chris White himself agrees with the tornadic weather conclusion above regarding LEOPARD...

It is still early in our evaluation of what happened but my own opinion is that Leopard was overtaken by a tornadic waterspout.
But two CWDs going over? Is there something in the design/build of these boats that make them more prone to capsize?

Regardless, I'm not at all worried about it. I know it can happen. I also know keels do fall off. That's why you take care of the boat and sail her to conditions...regardless of what boat you're on. It's really no frightening mystery.
 
#63 ·
How about this cruising cat? It doesn't appear to be holed, it's not a racer, it's a charter condo cat. It certainly wasn't safe for the sailors aboard even though it floated, they're missing.



https://www.enca.com/south-africa/missing-sunsail-found-agulhas
Amazing isn't it? That's a picture of the cat floating a year after it flipped. Now since you have about as much of a chance for a cruising cat to capsize as you do a monohull sink.....Those hulls look to be quite possibly livable and that's a much easier target for rescuers to locate than a life raft.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#68 ·
So ,the adrenaline rush ,just before you flip is what some seem to seak. They other end of wha th? is the charter cats in Thailand doing the goof on the reef. FRom our view point veranda we watch rented or skippered cats dance with rocks on the beach and anchor in secure crowds where it dries at low tide. Entertaining .
 
#69 ·
I dont normally look at these cruising links, but 27 knots in a Lagoon got my attention. It was hard to tell in the vid where everybody was when, I couldnt tell if they were surfing over 20 kn in auto pilot or in hand. Doing those speeds in a cruising cat in autopilot would be pretty dumb, broaching at that speed could be catastrophic, a skilled helmsman might be able to pull a boat out of a broach at that speed, but an autopilot, not likely. Even in hand steering it looks really risky to me, dont think those lagoons were designed for planing speeds.
 
#76 ·
I agree, it did look that way (like they were on auto). There was the young guy sitting at the nav station. I wonder if there might be a joystick or an autopilot control there with dodges, yaw controls, auto over ride etc. Not the same as having somebody at the wheel but maybe enough to pull the boat out of a broach. It would be interesting to know.
 
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