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Liveaboard Fees - again

10K views 61 replies 19 participants last post by  scratchee 
#1 ·
I don't really understand liveaboard fees making sense. I'm currently in a marina for a month. If I stay a second month there is a $150 "liveaboard fee". This is a 35% adder for what? Am I suddenly going to be using more resources etc. the second month over the first?

Now I used to kind of understand this as "liveaboards" use more electrical. But it costs less to power a 3 bedroom house than a $150 liveaboard fee. Plus I have noticed that boats just sitting in a slip with no one on them still have their air conditioners running. So it isn't like a liveaboard boat is really using any more power than an empty boat.

Guess that leaves water. I can come to the dock and fill my water tanks for free and that will last us 3 weeks on average. We probably use more water at a slip because it's "right there" and easy to refill. Near as I can tell this results in us using about 50 gal/month more water. Is the 50 gal of water that I can get free normally worth an extra $150? The "weekender" boats will use more than that when they come back in from their 3 hour boat ride to wash the boat off.

The only thing I can see my liveaboard fee covering is the extra wear and tear on the dock boards because they get walked on more.

Rant over, everyone go back to important "stuff"
 
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#2 ·
Are you not an official live aboard? I thought an extra fee was expected for liveaboards. As far as electricity, my marina has its slips charged/metered directly from the power company. Water seems to be included anyway while I've heard of some marinas charge separately for water usage
 
#4 ·
I'm not a liveaboard, I'm a cruiser.

But why should more fee be expected from one? Far as electric if the electric is involved in the slip price everyone is going to leave the AC on. If it's not involved everyone will pay for what they use. In either case why would there be an addition fee?
 
#5 · (Edited)
I am the past Commodore of. Yacht Club on the Chesapeake and as such was responsible for the upkeep and financial stability of its marina. While it wasn’t a for profit marina, many of the costs associated with it are similar.

We faced this issue many times as we charged live aboard more money than non ( most marinas on the Chesapeake don’t permit live aboard to begin with). A live aboard is someone who spends more than 30 days in a row at the marina.

The purpose of this is not to get in an argument over if liveaboards should be permitted, but merely to put forward the many comments made about the issues by non liveaboards.

Members or slip holders pay a fee based on expected usage . From that the supporting infrastructure can be figured out as to their costs. Water and electricity are minor and can be directly billed back as actual usage, however other utilities can not. Trash pickup. Over yearly maintainence fees. Life expectancy of docks, pumps, light fixtures, bathroom and showers etc. everything which is not on a yearly schedule but is on a number of uses schedule. Liveaboards increase the amount of usage. Our club was mainly a weekend club. 10 liveaboards exceeded in one month the totals in each category of 114 members. We had to maintain a full housekeeper with We had to have pump out available and man it more often as well as monitor the liveaboards compliance of using it.

Insurance costs was higher for the club if we allowed liveaboards

Pool usage went up. We were required to have a full time lifeguard with liveaboards or close the pool to them
Liveaboards did not pay any of the amortized or capital costs for the club, but used its facilities much more than the average member.

Like I said I don’t wish to get into an argument about philosophy but suffice it to say I strongly support boaters rights to anchor anywhere for reasonable periods of time. I strongly support user fees and usage fees. If you use more of the facilities of a club, or marina, I can’t understand how you could expect others to subside the increased usage costs.

It’s not a simple surface statement or glimpse at the issue. It’s not a philosophical discussion unless you wish to use emotional language to prove your point. It’s common sense and dollars and cents. Increased usage incurs increased costs.
 
#6 ·
I am not a liveaboard at my marina. I spend a couple of days per week on my boat. However, every time that I go to the marina, my wife gives me the trash from our house to toss in the dumpster. Last week she gave me a 4" queen mattress topper. There is always a lot of trash in the dumpster during spring commissioning. Frequently I see things like furniture (chest of drawers, console TV) various cushions, and building supplies (cabinets and sheetrock and tile from a house) chucked in the dumpster by other boat owners. The trash pickup, at my marina anyway, is more a function of the boat owner's projects than the live aboards.

I haven't used any pool at a marina since the only time (at my last marina) when I went to use it a sign was posted saying that the pool was closed because of fecal coliform.
 
#9 ·
I haven't used any pool at a marina since the only time (at my last marina) when I went to use it a sign was posted saying that the pool was closed because of fecal coliform.
I was going to rationalize the increased costs with extra wear and tear on the restroom facilities, apparently, people are using the pool wrong.

I think you are fortunate to be able to pull up to a marina and even get a slip let alone a liveaboard. On the West Coast there is often years long waiting list for a slip, maybe worse for a liveaboard. I have been waiting 4 years for a buoy on my local lake. On another lake there is a $65/year fee to be on their multi-year long waiting list.
 
#7 ·
It’s quite simple. They are charging you what they think the market will bear. They may be wrong (as you suggest), so the BEST thing you can do is move out, and tell them why you are leaving. This will send the market signal that they’ve price the service wrong.

This has been said many times already, but in a market economy products and service aren’t priced based on some intrinsic value. They are priced based on what the market will bear. If this price doesn’t produce sufficient profit something will change.

BTW, I live aboard. When at the marina I usually live aboard for a month or so on either end of the season. I’ve never been charged an additional fee for this. So the answer for you is to go to places which don’t charge this fee. They are out there.
 
#8 ·
I just don't care about the topic anymore

pretty much the answer is "because" and boaters are "ok" with that
 
#15 ·
Stir the pot, ask a question, give some troll a thing to pretend to respond to, whatever

Do you have a answer reason to the question or is that the end of your insight
 
#16 ·
You have posed many questions about living aboard/costs for doing so....
Yet, when getting opposing views from what you want to hear... you berate the responders.........

Grow up man.....

Instead of giving us useful info, and some of it has been, you become argumentative at every turn..........
 
#19 ·
Not staying a second month. But common in this area for cruisers to go ground for hurricane season.
 
#18 ·
I don’t want to hear anything except some facts. Do you have any relating to the question or did you just show up to do some name calling?

What exactly are you suggesting I would be getting in post #1 for $150 in month 2 over what I got in month 1. And what new costs to the marina are going to be occurred in month 2 needing this extra charge.
 
#20 ·
What exactly are you suggesting I would be getting in post #1 for $150 in month 2 over what I got in month 1. And what new costs to the marina are going to be occurred in month 2 needing this extra charge.
I think Chef answered the question. A liveaboard costs the marina more money, so they charge more money to liveaboards. The first month is a grace period, and after that the billing starts for living aboard.
 
#28 ·
Well I still don't understand really what extra I get. If boats with no one on them weren't allowed to run their air conditioners I could see an extra charge for "live aboards" that do. But for me the fee equals $200/mo because I deposit 2 extra small bags of trash a week into the dumpster. We are water "wasters" when in a slip and use an extra 50 gal/mo than normal for use. So that's expensive trash and water at $200/mo.

BTW - I've only stayed at 1 marina in the US with a pool. They didn't have a liveaboard fee.
 
#33 ·
don't use the showers either!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so I don't use more power than the empty boats running their AC just like me
I do use about 50ah of power at night more that the empty boats (in the day my solar is still on making power)
I don't use the marina TP
there's no pool (or sidewalks or paved parking lot or clubhouse)
I use 50 gal more water than I do worth at anchor, but don't know if that's less water than the weekend guys on 1 boat wash
I deposit 2 12-gal bags more of trash

that's the most expensive couple of small bags of trash, 50-gal of water, and 50ah/day of power

Just admit it the fee makes no sense. They do it because they can.

BTW the last house I owned was in a planned development. We paid $220/mo and that got the roads, driveways and walkway to the front door cleared of snow (in NH that's a lot), it got the lawn mowed and the landscaping in every unit on the front side of the house, it got the road and sideways maintained, it paid for all the street lights, it maintained the playgrounds, tennis courts and common areas, it paid for the trash pick-up
 
#34 ·
...Just admit it the fee makes no sense. They do it because they can.
This is the answer I, and many others, gave. It DOES make perfect sense - in a market economy. It makes as much sense as all other prices for services or products in our market economies.
 
#36 ·
Don,

I think your problem is you are frustrated because you are NOT using the Available options that you are paying for. However, you state that they do not have a clubhouse, or a paved parking lot, so it really does not sound like they are really set up for liveaboards anyway. You need to stay in nicer places and use the facilities!

The average boater living on their boat IS using the power, head, showers, washers, parking lot, etc.. There are costs involved. You are caught in the averages and are just on the frugal side of the usage equation. I really don't think that the average marina with live aboard's is trying to gouge people. They are just averaging the costs...or they are trying to not serve live aboard's without coming out and saying it. If that does not work they will stop it entirely and then you will have a problem finding anyplace to stay down the road. Start taking 50 gallon showers every day to get your money back.

It really does not matter what you paid for on land and how cheap it might have been. You now live on the boat and the price is what the price is. I now live on the water. Services I used to take for granted, and paid for in taxes and fees,(such as water, sewage, trash pick up, street plowing, etc) are no longer available to me. Example: ALL of my waste water goes into a holding tank. Showers, dishes, sewage. Every month I have to have it pumped out and hauled away at a cost of $300 plus a month. I knew that when I moved here and accept it. Don't like it, but it is a fact of life. However, I never take a short shower when at the marina@!
Glad you seem to have found a better place for yourself. Good luck along the way.
 
#38 ·
This thread was started to troll the issue, not ask a question.
That is absolutely NOT correct.

But your post is 100% correct on being a troll response. But it worked and I clicked on it and read it even though you are on ignore.
 
#39 ·
I don't really understand liveaboard fees making sense. I'm currently in a marina for a month. If I stay a second month there is a $150 "liveaboard fee". This is a 35% adder for what?
OK, let us just talk about electricity.
I believe the power company supplies power to a meter and breaker for a house. then some inexpensive wiring runs around to the various outlets and appliances.
Not so in a marina. After the meter and fuse, you have hundreds of yards of properly sized wire (I hope) running to a fairly expensive power pole that sits outside in the salt air 24/7/365. Not a $3.65 home outlet, but a $1000+ power center.
So, you come along and plug you plug in and use the maximum power most of the time, with your air, cooking, and electronics, etc. Not so with a weekender, of course.
Then a little weather blows in and maybe your plug isn't as securely in the pole as it could be and a $150 receptacle burns out, maybe a couple of times a year for some liveaboards.
Then there's maintaining these posts in the corrosive salt water atmosphere.
So, if power goes out to a pole of a liveaboard, it's much more imperative that it be repaired asap, perhaps requiring OT for the employee or even an outside contractor.
I've always felt the liveaboard fees at most marinas to be reasonably fair, and if not, then (thankfully I have a boat, not a dirt dwelling), I can move somewhere that the price of living aboard doesn't distress me so much.
 
#40 ·
Did you even read the sentence you quoted? Or are you saying all that only occurs if I stay a second month but don't the first month? And that the boat next to me running their air conditioning with no one on it costs less to run than mine?
 
#42 ·
I think all-you-can-eat buffets are a ripoff. They usually charge at least $15 per person, but I never eat $15 worth of food. I only have a roll, a small salad, and a glass of water. Why would they charge me $15 for eating a roll and a small salad? The pricing makes no sense whatsoever. A roll by itself on the menu is only $1.00. So if I eat a roll I pay a dollar, but if I eat a roll and a small salad it's fifteen dollars? Is the small salad really worth $14? Makes no sense.
 
#44 ·
The approach is too simplistic. Food buffets are losers...that's why you don't see many. Food cost to make profit of 5% must stay at 33% ...very difficult with produce prices. The costs you also are not taking not consideration, labor( (45%) ,. How many employees do yo need to maintain a buffet. insurance, utilities, licenses, plates, chemicals, utilities go into this also.

Then you have theft. Many bring in containers to take home expensive items, olives, butter, sweetener packets. All this goes into that food cost,

Go to the store. Buy all the items you ate, divide by number of salads you get out of it to see what 100% food cost would be. But to make that 5% profit it has to be at 33%.

That's why you see very few buffets . They are losers to operate.

As a tangent...they are sanitation nightmares, that's why I don't eat at them, with the general public handling the food you will eat.
 
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