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Electric start or easy start outboard for 21 foot sailboat

11K views 45 replies 16 participants last post by  mstern 
#1 ·
For my 21 foot sailboat I currently have a 1979 Penta Vovlo 3.5 or 4 HP 2 stroke outboard. It has a number of problems but the one that is most frustrating too me is that I have trouble starting it. Others who have gone sailing with me do not have trouble starting it. It is the pulling of the cord that gives me problems.

I would prefer to find a different outboard. So here are some questions I have.

Are some outboards easier to start than others? For example is a 4 stroke outboard easier to start than a 2 stroke?

I have tried to find a 4 to 6 HP electric start outboard but searches don't turn up anything. Are there any 4 to 6 HP electric start outboards? The lowest HP I think I have found or heard of with electric start is 8 or 9 HP.

If I decided to get a 9 HP electric start outboard for my 21 foot aquarius what would be the problems I would face? Would the stern be too low in the water due to the weight? At its lowest speed setting would the 9 HP run at 6 HP. One of my main worries besides it being too heavy would be that it is simply too powerful and I could not run it at a slow enough speed for leaving and returning to dock. If I don't use it for docking would the sailboat move fine with the 9 HP outboard?

Another thing I have considered is just getting an electric motor. That would probably be fine if I only use it for docking but if I am unfortunate enough to be in a storm or with no wind and need it then I would be worried it simply wouldn't last more than 30 minutes to an hour on a fully charged battery.

A cheap option I have considered is getting 2 $100 trolling motors and connect them and use that for docking until I can get something better? I suspect though that such a setup would only work in calm water.

For now, I simply don't rely on the outboard and have 4 paddles on board and have learned to hold the tiller with my legs while paddling if going out alone.
 
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#2 ·
My 21 foot boat came with a trolling motor with a good size AGM (I don't have the model in front of me). I wasn't impressed.

The power was adequate for launching and retrieving (maybe 1.5-2 knots tops). But the endurance was pretty poor. 25 minutes maybe. Not adequate for my usage, that's for sure. And my boat is half the weight of yours.

I used it once and went out and bought a small outboard, which actually weighs less than a decent sized battery + trolling motor. The one I bought was pull start though.
 
#4 ·
The lake near my house where I have my boat moored doesn't allow gasoline engines, so my only choice was electric. I have a 74 lb thrust trolling motor that pushes my boat at 3-4 knots. I've motored into a 25 knot headwind and it didn't have any problem.

I have a stupid complicated electric setup for such a small boat. The trolling motor is 24 volt, so I have two group 31 batteries in series (this is more amp hours than on some 40 foot boats I've been on). Then I have a DC to DC converter to give me 12 volts for the house. I have a 50 watt solar panel and a step up charge controller to keep things charged.

It works great for me, and I love the quiet and ease of the electric. But it's a stupid complicated setup.

The boat I chartered in March had a Lehr propane outboard on the dinghy. That thing was great! No gasoline smell and it always started right up. You might want to consider propane.
 
#5 ·
Complicated will be okay as long as it makes so I can start the outboard.

My concern with an electric motor is if I needed an outboard to run for 7 or more hours I would expect the electric motor to be inadequate. I am looking at learning for my current needs but also for future needs and if I ever get to the point that I am sailing from the US to Europe I would think that an electric motor wouldn't be good enough for during an unexpected storm. This may be faulty logic on my part due to my lack of experience. I've only ever sailed in a river and small bays near that river.

Propane is something I have not thought about. I'll give that some thought.

That Honda outboard is one that came up in a search before. I don't see where the pull cord is. Or does it start differently? How easy is it to start? In the specs it says "Easy starting, maintenance free transistor ignition" How does that work?
 
#9 · (Edited)
That Honda outboard is one that came up in a search before. I don't see where the pull cord is. Or does it start differently? How easy is it to start? In the specs it says "Easy starting, maintenance free transistor ignition" How does that work?
The Honda 2.3 is very easy to start when it starts, my wife can start ours seated with one pull. It would push your boat pretty well, although I doubt hull speed unless conditions were benign. I am guessing you could reliably get about 4 knots at %75. I posted these vids to another thread, but I guess there is no harm in posting them again here.

 
#6 ·
Honda outboards start very easy, 1-2 pulls on the cord and choke on. But if you want to run motor for hours, you will need one with an external fuel tank. If you get an electric start model, make sure it can also be started with a cord. Electric starter adds a lot of complexity to both the motor design (starter, alternator) and installation (battery, cabling).
 
#7 ·
Z:

I think you are correct in that it will be difficult to impossible to find an outboard with electric start smaller than an 8hp. I have an electric start 8hp for my 23 foot sailboat, and it is plenty powerful; it pushes the boat at hull speed at about 3/4 of full throttle.

For your boat, you could do with a 6 or maybe even a 4 hp engine, depending on the prevailing conditions. If there is a strong local current, or if the tides are strong, you should go with the bigger engine. You don't want to buy too big an engine; but according to sailboatdata.com, your boat weighs 1900 lbs. It can certainly handle an 8 or 9 hp engine on the back. And for what it's worth, I love it the electric start feature on my engine. But there are a few things to consider that you didn't mention:

First, you have a two stroke engine now. If you buy a factory new engine, it will be a four stroke. No one makes small two stroke engines anymore. They phased them out about ten years ago. Four stroke engines have some advantages over two stroke engines: they are quieter. Much quieter. They pollute less. You don't have to mix oil into the gas. And for a given HP, they generate more torque so you can get more oomph at a lower cost. All good stuff. But the flip side is they are heavier than their two stroke counterparts. So, given the extra weight (how much extra depends completely on the brand and size) and torque, you may need to upgrade your transom outboard mount too. This can be simple or difficult, again depending on the mount you already have.

One more thing to consider: always get the long shaft model. The "standard" shaft length on an outboard is 15". The long shaft models are usually 20". Some come with an "extra long shaft" option of 25". The proper model for you depends on your mounting set up. Do you have a moveable outboard mount that lets you raise the outboard out of the water, or is it fixed? If you raise the outboard mount or tilt the outboard up, will a 20" shaft be clear of the water? Will a 25" shaft? Take some measurements before you go shopping. Generally speaking, the deeper the prop, the more efficient it will be, and the less likely it is the prop will come out of the water in rough conditions or when making sharp turns.

One other issue you raised: will a higher hp engine run "slow" enough for you to get in and out of your marina? The short answer is yes. Even those monsterous 300hp outboards can run slowly.
 
#8 ·
I won't mind the extra battery and cabling if I can just hit a button and the motor starts.

If I go with an 8 or 9 HP outboard I would probably get a used one. I like the idea of not having to mix gas and oil which is why I would prefer a 4 stroke; one less thing for me to do wrong. I am aware of the long shaft outboards and my current one is a long shaft. I didn't realize there were two different lengths.

One thing I did not think about at all was if the movable outboard mount could handle the weight of an 8 or 9 HP outboard. Would I need to worry about reinforcing the fiberglass transom(stern?) or just get a different movable outboard mount if the current one can't handle the weight? The one I have now doesn't always stay locked into place so it may be good to replace it and the propeller is never all the way out of the water unless I put a piece of wood attached to the bolt that keeps the shaft the highest when the outboard mount is up.
 
#10 ·
I doubt your transom needs reinforcement; my guess is that it was made to handle an engine that weighs about 100lbs. The newer 6-8 hp four strokes weigh significantly less than that. Not all mounts are made to handle the extra torque of a four stroke though. I've never been able to tell if the mount rating is based on weight, torque, or some combination of the two. If your mount isn't "four stroke certified" but can handle up to 125 lbs., can it handle an 80lb. four stroke engine? I doubt you will be able to get a straight answer on that one. The conservative approach is to get a mount that specifically says it can handle a four stroke. But a quick look on line shows that those mounts are much beefier, and much more expensive. When I bought my engine new about 15 years ago, I specifically went with another two stroke, just so I wouldn't have to upgrade the mount too, as for my boat, that would have required a lot more work than just buying a drop-in replacement mounting bracket.

And for what it's worth, I stopped trying to lift the engine on the mounting bracket. It was just too difficult to get leverage from the cockpit. I leave the mounting bracket at its lowest setting and tilt the engine out of the water.
 
#11 ·
I watched the first video. Thank you very much for sharing and explaining in detail about the Honda outboard.

I have a lot to think about as I plan for what outboard to get. At this point I am leaning toward getting an 8 or 9 HP with electric start since I simply don't want to deal with pulling a cord to start the motor. It will take me some months for me to have the money to make any change so this gives me plenty to think about before making a final decision.
 
#12 ·
My 2016 4 stroke Mercury 3.5hp outboard is pretty easy to start. The gearshift is handy too, being able to throw it in neutral and let it run is great for reserve bump in power when you need it... you must spin the outboard for reverse though. Until you get to 4hp, you only get the 1 liter fuel tank (internal), same for the aforementioned Honda 2.3.

I picked up a cruise n carry 2 stroke outboard, and I'd put the ease of starting in the category of about as easy as anything I've used (and it's 30 years old). Easier to start than a weed eater (sounds like one too).

I love folks that say go electric, and it DOES have its place (if you only ever use a motor for short periods, they are the bomb). If you EVER think you'll need to motor for a very long period, on a small boat, a gas outboard is hard to beat... OK Propane works too.

NO outboard motor will start perfectly every time. Nor will one that starts easy today be easy to start in rough weather or cooler conditions. Over time a motor can get better, or even worse.

My 7 hp yachtin 2 stroke loved the warm weather, anything over 60 degrees F... but when it dipped below that, it required more throttle and full choke to start. Just the nature of these boxes.

NO, I don't think you'll find under 9 hp outboards with electric start.
NO, I don't think a 9.9 hp (especially a 4 stroke that will weigh in at 100lbs or more with electric start) makes sense on a 21 foot boat.
NO, a trolling motor is probably not your best choice.
Something like a Torqueedo might work for you, but it likely won't work well for a 7 mile upwind motor in a 20 knot breeze.

Feel free to not answer this, but is this a physical limitation of yours? Say torn rotator cuff, or such? The actual pulling force should be small, and a well running outboard should not take more than 2 or 3 pulls each time to start.

Before you answer, I consider my wife nearly as stong as myself. She slugs 50lb bags of horse feed with me, and we are clearing 7 acres of land together moving 50-70lb rocks ourselves. She's strong - like ox... but she broke her humorous bone years ago, and its rodded with screws through her rotator cuff, and she has a heck of a time starting any pull start items around the house... the chainsaw (one of my arch enemy 2 stroke motors) is completely off limits... but she starts our pull start generator no problem... Its angle, and its repetition... once, twice no problem.. 5 times and she's done.

My solution on prior boats (to show her how to start the outboard in case of me going overboard) was to leave the outboard mount UP, so she can pull horizontally to start the outboard, then once started, drop the motor mount down. YEAH this ain't great for the water cooled motor, but if the motor is air cooled (like the aforementioned Honda 2.3) it might be just what the doctor ordered. There are several older model air-cooled outboards that are cheap and available too (including the cruise n carry I mentioned). There are also Briggs and Stratton engines that are air cooled as well. This only works well obviously if your motor mount is causing an angle problem for starting for you when down. If the up position makes it easier, this might be your ticket.
 
#13 ·
It is probably a combination of issues. I have started this outboard once. I think this was during a time when my wrists were not as bad as they are now.

Even when the movable mount is in the up position the propeller is in the water. This outboard has no neutral. Once the outboard is started if the movable mount is in the up position I can't get it into the down position. With it in the up position the propeller is not deep enough in the water and so the boat is difficult to control.

When I try to start it in the down position I have to keep one hand on the outboard to keep it from coming up and locking in the up position while pulling on the cord. So that combined with the angle, and me trying to make sure I don't bend my wrists and whatever else just means that the other times I tried I couldn't start it and then someone with me could.

Most likely I have some form of carpel tunnel and psychologically I simply believe whatever the problem with my wrists has weakened my hands and wrists and contributes to me not being able to start my outboard. As long as I don't bend my wrists and don't spend much time typing in front of a computer then my wrists are fine and I am able to do everything just fine on my sailboat except starting the outboard.
 
#15 ·
Something to consider with the electric start. Between the choices of pull start and electric start, I consider the pull start to be by far the most reliable option.

Unless you have a very robust system like Minne's, dead batteries can be a real and frequent problem on little old sailboats like ours. When the time comes, when you've been out sailing all day in cruddy weather, bilge pump coming on, nav lights on, there may come a time when you will need to pull start your engine whether it has an electric start or not.

Personally, I'd rather have to pull start a 4 or 5 hp engine than a 9.9 if that time comes.

If I need to bring the engine on board to clear weeds, change a prop or do whatever, I'd prefer a 35 lb engine to an 85 lb engine.

Just another angle to consider.
 
#27 ·
Something to consider with the electric start. Between the choices of pull start and electric start, I consider the pull start to be by far the most reliable option.
We had a Honda 15 electric start for 15yrs and now a Suzuki 20 electric start for 4yrs. Neither of them have ever needed to be pull started.

Besides, the pull start is always still there if it was needed. Seems that is as reliable as it gets.

I don't know about the smaller Suzuki's, but the 9.9hp on up models have a decompression feature on their pull starts. One gently pulls the cord a short length until resistance is felt, then pull it fully. Some magic occurs and the pull strain is very low then. I think the <9.9hp models are rebadged Tohatsu's, so they may not have this feature.

For the last 19yrs we have had larger OB's, but I grew up with 2-8hp OB's and never remember them being difficult to pull. Good thing too, because often you had to pull and pull and.... Are the new ones harder to pull now?

Mark
 
#16 ·
"I am looking at learning for my current needs but also for future needs and if I ever get to the point that I am sailing from the US to Europe I would think that an electric motor wouldn't be good enough for during an unexpected storm. This may be faulty logic on my part due to my lack of experience. I've only ever sailed in a river and small bays near that river."

No offense but if you plan on sailing this boat (Aquarius 21) from the US to Europe you will have much bigger things to worry about than the motor if you are caught in a storm!
I owned a similar boat - Sirius 21 and they are NOT an open ocean boat. I sail my boats hard but don't have a death wish!
 
#17 ·
If I were to buy a pull start motor my hope would be that it is easier to start because my old one is hard simply because it is old.

Would it be worth the effort to convert a pull start 4 HP to an electric start?

Good point about the weight.

I don't have a death wish and expect it will take me many more years before I would even feel comfortable with attempting to cross an ocean. By that time I'm sure I will also know enough to understand why you say this boat should not be taken into the open ocean. Would your assessment also include island hopping in the Caribbean?
 
#18 ·
A couple of things...
Many years ago, my brother had a Santana 22, a much heavier boat than your 21. His Johnson 3 hp pushed that boat along just fine.
A few years ago, same brother had a small boat with a Honda 15 hp, 4 stroke and electric start. Battery was often dead, so we used the pull start. Very easy to start.
Don't waste your money on an electric start engine that most likely is larger than you need. Any of the major brands of motors will suit you just fine.
 
#19 ·
"Easy" starting outboards is a relative term. My outboard does start "easily" with it's pull cord; by that, I mean it usually starts on the first or second pull. But it ain't "easy". Starting it requires me to first assume an uncomfortable and unnatural position partially leaning over the transom. Once I pull the cord (sometimes not a fun thing for my lower back), I then have lunge back to the engine to quickly push the choke in. This requires me to somehow avoid smashing my face into the pushpit while I reach the choke. I sometimes have to orchestrate that left hand choke move along with another move to play with the throttle with my right hand. And that's when the boat is still at the dock. It's even more fun when pitching about on the water.

It's something I've learned to do over the years (especially one year when I went most of the season without the electric start when the ignition switch broke and I didn't want to interrupt my sailing to have it fixed); it's obviously doable, but I wouldn't say it's easy. This is why I really like my electric start. One other big benefit to the electric start: it gives my wife great comfort to know it's there. She is not mechanical at all, and I don't know if she could start the engine on her own without the electric start.

An 8hp engine might be bigger than the OP "needs", but it ain't overkill. Especially if it gives him the benefit of a feature that he needs or really wants.
 
#20 ·
I would not expect an outboard to last 7 hours in a storm; they're not meant to take that kind of abuse/salt water.

I would suggest that you look at a small electric outboard (like a torquedo) or a propane outboard (which are supposed to be much easier to pull-start than gas). If you decide to set off to Europe, do so in a more seaworthy vessel.
 
#24 ·
I had a 1974 21' Aquarius with a johnson 9.9 2 stroke for 10 years. The transom was beefed up a little with backing plate (bought it that way) and it was fine. I never had an issue, but I'm not a professional sailor either. We actually motored only the first 2 years while trying to figure out how to replace the retractable center board that was missing and learning to sail with other people's boats.
Many good suggestions, but if you do add a newer engine, it would probably be ok as long as you know it won't fall off!
 
#25 ·
Zions: Despite my best efforts (and a lot of cash), I find myself needing to replace my venerable 8hp two stroke. Like you, I really want to keep the electric start option. My initial research shows that the smallest engine with electric start is an 8 hp (Tohatsu/Merc). Have you found anything different?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Merc made an electric start 6 hp two stroke. However I believe it is the same size and weight as the 9.9. I owned one, it was reliable as can be but it was very heavy for a 6hp. I ended up trading it in for a 5 hp that weighed so much less!

I find that a well maintained, used two stroke can be a wonderful thing to have hanging off your backside :)
 
#28 ·
I'd have to add myself to this discussion. Recently, My old friend and me (yeah I'm old too) Took his really old 30ft boat down to Green Point Marina MD from here. (Bristol PA) He used an older 4 stroke 9.9 Tohatsu for the trip. It ran 15-20 hrs almost non stop about a 100 miles + never skipped a beat except when cold at start up. Certainly not something I expected!
 
#30 ·
Disclaimer, I'm old and this is old data.

Our first boat was a Pearson 22, it had a 9.9 Johnson on it with electric start. It even had a small alternator on it and charged the battery when running. I even had 2 deep cycles with an 1/2 switch, cabin lights, a depth sounder and log. Used a camp stove to cook. It worked great for local coastal cruising, and would run for hours when you needed to get somewhere and the wind died or the tide was pushing the wrong way in a river. We had a big bracket on the back of this boat that held the motor fine. It was long shaft as others mentioned. We had a blast in that boat. 5 boats later, it still seems to me pound for pound, dollar for dollar, that was the most fun we've had in any boat since.

Sounds like the problem is finding a new outboard that's reasonable weight and electric start now that the US world anyway is 4 stroke. No advice there, but depending on how you are using the boat you might be willing to put up with a bigger motor. It's one thing to trailer onto a lake for daysails, another to have a pocket coastal cruiser that you can spend a week or more on and need to get someplace including tidal bays with currents, etc.
 
#32 ·
BTW, the difference in weight between equal engines with electric start and without is 5-8lbs (basically the weight of the starter). Battery not included, of course, but that is just a few pounds of gear in the boat, not weight in the engine.

I do agree that 8hp seems to be the smallest size offered with electric start.

Mark
 
#34 ·
One more thing to note is that although the starter and extra bits are only a few pounds, the smallest HP will likely still be on a larger block that is simply powered down.

For example, the Honda electric start 9.9 HP and 8HP both weigh in at 117 pounds.

The Merc 2 stroke electric start 6HP wights the same as the 9.9HP

Drop down 1 or 2 HP to the largest HP of the smaller block and you get up to approx 40% drop in weight, but you are stuck with a pull start...that is easy to lift with one hand.

Moral of this rant is to buy the largest HP for the weight (as long as your boat is rated for it).
 
#35 ·
We recently bought a 6 hp Tohatsu for our Capri 22. The cool thing about our purchase was that we got to see it run (in a water barrel) before we bought it. We got to go through the whole starting process with the shop tech.
It starts very easily, usually with one pull.
My point is that if you can find a shop that provides similar service, you might get to try several rope starters for ease in starting.
But 6 hp is plenty.
 
#40 ·
The misrepresentation is assigning the weight to the electric start and not to the basic motor itself.

There is no significant difference in weight between equal sized electric start and non-electric outboards.

Yes, if one goes with a 8hp motor, one gets a heavier motor than a 4hp. I thought that was obvious. The type of starting system doesn't play into this, and I don't see why some here are playing that angle.

I'm not telling the OP to get a larger motor - I'm only pointing out that electric start does not add significant weight, and is not less reliable, should he be considering engines that have this option.

There is no "emergency" pull start rope on electric start. It is just the normal pull start that is there on the non-electric model.

Mark
 
#41 ·
The misrepresentation is assigning the weight to the electric start and not to the basic motor itself.

There is no significant difference in weight between equal sized electric start and non-electric outboards.

Yes, if one goes with a 8hp motor, one gets a heavier motor than a 4hp. I thought that was obvious. The type of starting system doesn't play into this, and I don't see why some here are playing that angle.

I'm not telling the OP to get a larger motor - I'm only pointing out that electric start does not add significant weight, and is not less reliable, should he be considering engines that have this option.

There is no "emergency" pull start rope on electric start. It is just the normal pull start that is there on the non-electric model.

Mark
Why is this so important to you? Do you own stocks in a company that makes electric starters for outboards? You dug up a month old post of mine about electric start engines being heavier and relatively more difficult to pull start than engines typically found on small trailer sailers and when I don't bow to your knowledge you call me a liar?

Merriam-Webster dictionary misrepresent: "give a false or misleading account of the nature of".

I sail a boat of similar size to the op. In April, I repowered it. I did my research on the topic, not by asking experts on sailnet, because it was much easier for me to go to a couple of dealerships and read some Google reviews.

It was apparent to me, immediately upon doing my research that there were no electric start engines available, on the market that would be a suitable match for my boat, because the electric start engines that were available were too big, too heavy, with too much engine displacement for my boat.

The op asked if he thought there might be issues with his plan to go with an electric start engine. I explained without going into deep pedantic rhetoric what issues I thought he might face. It was free advice given in good faith.

If you know of an engine that will suit the OPs needs, please share.

I don't like to make difinitive statements that call people wrong. But with regards to me misrepresenting facts, you are wrong. I gave my answer based on my perception of the issue. I am not trying to mislead the op, nor do I have any reason to mislead the op.
 
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