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post #11 of 16 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

Though this thread is from 2015, I think it applies even more now.

Boat values aren't based on what you paid for them, they're based on the current market. People may have a tough time borrowing money for (and insuring) a 25 year old boat.

To buy your boat, buyers have walked past a lot of other boats. It helps a LOT of you've been using and regularly maintaining your boat, which will certainly make yours stand out.
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post #12 of 16 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

There is no doubt that there can be very large refit costs to an older boat. But I am not sure that the loan thing is correct. While the percentage that a person has to put down to buy a new boat is much smaller than for an older boat, the old boat buyer's credit rating needs to be better, and the interest rates on an older boat loan are a little higher (The banks look at an older boat loan as being almost an unsecured personal loan), none the less loans seem to be available for boats as old as 40 years or more if they can pass survey. On the flip side, newer boats are so much more expensive to buy that the down payment on a new boat will wildly exceed the value of an older boat, and ultimate interest paid dwarfs the entire price of buying, refitting and owning an older boat.

Frankly, the issue on dropping boat prices on a boat like a Niagara, or Pacific Seacraft goes way beyond the refit costs or bank loans. The bigger issue is that there has been a huge shift in what people expect out of any boat that they buy. They look at newer designs as being more comfortable, easier to sail, more reliable, more seaworthy, and offering more performance than older designs like the Niagara or Pacific Seacraft. There seems to be a shift in tastes away from the dark teak interiors that were typically found on boats like Niagaras, or Pacific Seacrafts.

I also think that the market is saturated with unwanted older boats. A friend of mine keeps coming up with perfectly good used boats that people are literally giving away for free or almost free. He started last spring with a 17 foot daysailer, and since then he or I have been offered an Oday 22, Catalina 22, Pearson 26, Oday 27, Cal 2-27, Catalina 30, and a Pearson 30 all of which for pretty much free and all of which are in sail away condition, he just has to remove them from where they are stored quickly.

Its just that bad for sellers or just that good for someone looking to get into sailing cheaply.

Jeff
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post #13 of 16 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

I agree with most of what you say.

But it does seem to me that there is a big dropoff in prices (or boats staying on the market for a very long time) at the 25 year mark.
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

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Originally Posted by gulfsail View Post
I agree with most of what you say.

But it does seem to me that there is a big dropoff in prices (or boats staying on the market for a very long time) at the 25 year mark.
I track the prices on a number of different models, and there does not seem to be a bigger drop at any particular age of boat. The three things I have seen is that there have been periods when the price of new boats shot up rapidly (1991-92, 2000-02 for example) and so those boats look like a cliff in the used boat market.

Secondly, there have been periods of time that produced particularly poor designs, design types which have fallen out of favor, or poor build quality, and seen those boats fall suddenly to near zero value.

And the third thing I have seen is a cross the board crash in used boat prices such as happened from 2010 until 2012 and again over the past 2 years.

Separate from that is that there is a really large divergence in the quality of maintenance from one boat and the other such that the impact of deferred maintenance really begins to show as boats get to be 20 years old or more. Suddenly you have boats that have near zero value since they are worth less than the combined cost of buying new sails, electronics, running and standing rigging, major engine work, and cushions. But if an owner has been incrementally updating these items, the boat still has a lot of value left.

Jeff


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post #15 of 16 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I track the prices on a number of different models, and there does not seem to be a bigger drop at any particular age of boat. The three things I have seen is that there have been periods when the price of new boats shot up rapidly (1991-92, 2000-02 for example) and so those boats look like a cliff in the used boat market.

Secondly, there have been periods of time that produced particularly poor designs, design types which have fallen out of favor, or poor build quality, and seen those boats fall suddenly to near zero value.

And the third thing I have seen is a cross the board crash in used boat prices such as happened from 2010 until 2012 and again over the past 2 years.

Separate from that is that there is a really large divergence in the quality of maintenance from one boat and the other such that the impact of deferred maintenance really begins to show as boats get to be 20 years old or more. Suddenly you have boats that have near zero value since they are worth less than the combined cost of buying new sails, electronics, running and standing rigging, major engine work, and cushions. But if an owner has been incrementally updating these items, the boat still has a lot of value left.

Jeff

I haven't been tracking these religiously or across the board, but in the models that I've been watching I have seen a lot of boats of that age, mostly in similar condition (OK, but not bristol) sitting on the market for at least a year. And at the 20-25 year mark, things like chainplates, standing rigging, running rigging, sails, fuel/water/holding tanks, etc are often haven't been replaced.

As you've been tracking them, what would you say the depreciation on such boats are?

Edit: Seems to me newer model boats are valued against their own "new" price, but over time are more valued against other boats of similar age and design. But is there a huge difference between a 25 year old boat and a 30 year old one? At that point, it's all about condition.

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post #16 of 16 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Niagara 35 market values

At some point in time all boats fall into category of oem fitting and equip becomes suspect.
Condition past new depends on the owners.

Roof is good for 20 or 30, etc
After that time its the owners
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