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post #71 of 80 Old 07-29-2019
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Re: Torqeedo

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They cost *you* $7.50 each.

Tesla produces their cylindrical cells for ~$.60 each. At that price you're looking at ~$200. Much more reasonable.
Sure, but unless you're Elon Musk powering your boat that's pretty irrelevant. I don't have a factory to make my own cells, so retail cost is what I'd pay.
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Re: Torqeedo

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Sure, but unless you're Elon Musk powering your boat that's pretty irrelevant. I don't have a factory to make my own cells, so retail cost is what I'd pay.
For a marine application, Leaf battery cells arranged however you like are a good solution, and they're about the same price per kWh as a new lead acid AGM, only with 4-5x the power density for the weight and 8-10x the expected cycle lifetime.

I used Chevy Volt cells in Khaleesea's EP conversion. They'll probably outlast the boat, considering how little I draw out of the propulsion pack compared to what the Volt does. Plus, my 9kWh of capacity was about $1400. Had I been willing to buy a whole pack and disassemble it myself it would have been even cheaper.
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Re: Torqeedo

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I've been looking at these a little now. Figured I'd keep it to this thread. As someone else mentioned Torqueedo now has a competitor; ePropulsion. Hong Kong based vs German Torqueedo. Unfortunately so far the effect on pricing seems minimal. Your lowest entry cost (for 3 hp equivalent) is still the same, $2000 at this time. But EP is a slightly better deal as you get a 2x size battery; 1000 Wh vs 530 Wh from Torq. Translates to 1 hr at full throttle, vs 30 min. Equivalent Torq package is $2,700. (I also saw that supposedly the EP battery floats while Torq does not, FWIW).

I don't want to be prejudiced, but it does have a sense of "chineese rip off" about it, so I'd have concerns about the quality of ePropulsion. And might want to go with the more established german engineering.. I haven't found any trustworthy testimonials about EP, I'd be curious if anyone has seen anything about these?
I can provide a real EP testimonial, having used one for 7 months cruising from Europe to the Caribbean and now up to Maine. High quality unit that runs quieter than the Torqeedo and has more battery capacity in a floating unit. We get 2 hours at 3-4 kt and 1 hour at 5-6 kt. You can do the math on range 🙂

Upside is that it has run flawlessly over about 30 cycles. Downside is that it will not plane and in a chop, it is quite wet without the spray hood on the F-Rib that we use it with. However, since fitting the hood, the squeaks from passengers when running ashore from anchor have diminished considerably.
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post #74 of 80 Old 07-29-2019
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Re: Torqeedo

Torqeedo has upped the game this year. The new 1103 C is dead silent (direct drive motor), 915Wh. Iím hopeful the new model has updated some design elements to make it a bit more resilient. It should with the sealed direct drive.

Published range:
2 kt - 20 hours
3 kt - 6 hours
5.5 kt - 50 min

Iíll report back as I just received one to use on our 8 ft porta-bote. It will be mid August before Iím back on the boat.
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Re: Torqeedo

Sounds like Torqeedo decided that EP, founded by ex-Torqeedo employees if I recall correctly, is a serious competitor and upgraded to match their competition. Hopefully, even if it does not drive price reduction, it will spur innovation.

Incidentally, I can confirm from first hand experience that the EP batteries do float.....
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Re: Torqeedo

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Originally Posted by Zemurray View Post
Torqeedo has upped the game this year. The new 1103 C is dead silent (direct drive motor), 915Wh. Iím hopeful the new model has updated some design elements to make it a bit more resilient. It should with the sealed direct drive.

Published range:
2 kt - 20 hours
3 kt - 6 hours
5.5 kt - 50 min

Iíll report back as I just received one to use on our 8 ft porta-bote. It will be mid August before Iím back on the boat.
Looks like it. But Torqueedo feel they can command a 35% price premium based on their name, vs similar product from ePropulsion. Maybe it's worth it, I don't know.
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Re: Torqeedo

The EP "Navy Pod 3.0" motors look interesting. They're not horribly expensive at ~2500 USD each, but I think they're fudging the "HP equivalent". 3kW makes ~4 mechanical horsepower, not 6. It *is* direct drive, which is as close to 100% efficient as is possible, so it might be the equivalent of a 5-6HP sail drive or other high-loss setup.

That being said, it's still only 4HP. Kahleesea is only 27' at the waterline, and 3kW isn't enough to push her anywhere near hull speed. I can hit cruising speed at that amperage on a calm day, but that's it. There's nothing left to add if there's any sort of chop or headwind. I wouldn't recommend this pod system for anything bigger than a 25' boat.

I think this would work great on something like a three pontoon party barge. Mount a couple of these and 12kWh of battery and you're all set.
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Re: Torqeedo

This must be a relativly small market. Otherwise i would expect to see minntoka and motor guide in it..
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Re: Torqeedo

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Looks like it. But Torqueedo feel they can command a 35% price premium based on their name, vs similar product from ePropulsion. Maybe it's worth it, I don't know.
Well, theyíve been around a lot longer and they aren't a Chinese knock off, so Iíd rather pay the premium personally. This is their 3rd iteration, so I suspect theyíve learned a few things along the way. Maybe the EP is just as good, not sure. I wasnít willing to take the gamble. Iíll know in a year.
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Re: Torqeedo

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Originally Posted by Captain Canuck View Post
The EP "Navy Pod 3.0" motors look interesting. They're not horribly expensive at ~2500 USD each, but I think they're fudging the "HP equivalent". 3kW makes ~4 mechanical horsepower, not 6. It *is* direct drive, which is as close to 100% efficient as is possible, so it might be the equivalent of a 5-6HP sail drive or other high-loss setup.

That being said, it's still only 4HP. Kahleesea is only 27' at the waterline, and 3kW isn't enough to push her anywhere near hull speed. I can hit cruising speed at that amperage on a calm day, but that's it. There's nothing left to add if there's any sort of chop or headwind. I wouldn't recommend this pod system for anything bigger than a 25' boat.

I think this would work great on something like a three pontoon party barge. Mount a couple of these and 12kWh of battery and you're all set.
they make a navy 6.0 as well. The navy series is heavy, and with external battery. The motor alone weights over 50lbs. Plus another 60lbs for the battery. For a dinghy thatís a non starter. For larger boat use cases, Torqeedo also makes more powerful units with external batteries.
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