Would anybody be interested in an electric outboard like this? - Page 9 - SailNet Community
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post #81 of 84 Old 12-13-2015
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Re: Would anybody be interested in an electric outboard like this?

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Originally Posted by CharlzO View Post
First, thank you for taking the time to explain yourself and the product on here, after having been questioned. And without getting into any of the rest of it, I wanted to bring up this part:



While this may very well be true, the only thing I can say is that this being a sailing forum, it's understandably going to be a different boat, no pun intended. To play devil's advocate (and believe me, I know that MANY companies are the same, I'm not saying this directed at you and your company alone), but that's saying "We're going to use the method that gives us the ability to claim the best possible numbers that we can show, even if it means a drastic reduction if someone uses something else instead". Would be like saying I've made a gas motor that gives 1000 miles per gallon, with fine print saying it was achieved using a child's bicycle being ridden by a 40lb toddler going downhill with a tailwind.

I'm not taking away from the potential of your system, or the objective of the OP's goal of gathering opinions. However, it's obviously going to be something not nearly as well-received on a a forum where users are using displacement hulls weighing far more than your test rig, or ideal hull design to achieve the performance claimed. Once you start factoring that in, it's very likely to severely impact performance, and distance/range figures of the system, which is why many of us are questioning it's feasibility in our real-world examples. I do understand that it's not something that you may have immediate chances to test, but I know that for myself, unless I had something that I could compare apples-to-apples with something similar to what I'm using, it's one of those things where I say it's nice for people that are better suited for it, but there's just no way I could justify the expense with too much unknown for me.

Best of luck though, and perhaps we'll get a test soon that's more representative of our usage to gauge it by.
I didn't post to this forum, as I thought it was premature, not having tested on sailboats. I participated in a University of Washington class that wanted to use Pure Watercraft as a test subject, and in my presentation, I outlined future markets, and sailing was one of them. One of the student groups posted here.

Now that we have been mentioned here, I'm making sure the record is straight. We would be happy to test on sailboats, and post the information here about what we discover. There is such a wide variety of sailboats, though, that I'm sure that even if we do test on one, many others will post that results from the one we tested are not representative for them. So the most helpful things that people on this forum could do, if you're willing, is:

1) Suggest which hull types would be most representative, so we could answer the concerns of the most sailors possible, without doing dozens of tests.

2) If any owners of such hulls are in the Seattle area (or the San Francisco Bay Area, where we will be later this week), and are willing to let us test, that would be very helpful. Such a test would have the added benefit of a witness who is a member of this community.

Thank you.
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post #82 of 84 Old 12-13-2015
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Re: Would anybody be interested in an electric outboard like this?

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Originally Posted by PureWatercraft View Post
I didn't post to this forum, as I thought it was premature, not having tested on sailboats. I participated in a University of Washington class that wanted to use Pure Watercraft as a test subject, and in my presentation, I outlined future markets, and sailing was one of them. One of the student groups posted here.
I didn't mean to imply that it was your calling to have the OP post here, my apologies if I sounded that way. I'm aware that they did so on their own. Looking forward to more tests, hopefully some in the area are able to help out. Thanks again for your continued participation.

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post #83 of 84 Old 12-14-2015
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Re: Would anybody be interested in an electric outboard like this?

The biggest issue I can see testing on sailboats is that in large part your system is overspecced for most sailboats that use outboards. That being said almost any moderate displacement hull would be an ideal test boat. Say around 10,000lbs or so and obviously set up with an outboard already. A number of 30' boats with old Atomic-4 engines have been converted to outboards so you may be able to find one.

Typically these boats will use a 20hp or so outboard, any boat much bigger is almost certainly going to use an internal diesel and a motor mount may be difficult to find.


Actually by slowing down the prop and going to a larger diameter your engine is already going to be far superior to most outboards on sailboats. Where prop slip and cavitation are often the limiting factors. In large part because even at top speed a 30' sailboat is going to be motoring at 7kn, and almost all 20hp outboards are proper to be doing 25kn.

This may be too far out of his wheelhouse to get him interested, but there are few people whose word would be worth more about your engine than Bob Perry. His report would have instant credence in the sailing world, and he is local to you.

One of the features you may want to think seriously about is while your system is about the same weight as a traditional instal, it allows you to mount half the weight almost anywhere in the boat. Getting the weight off of the stern is a huge advantage for sailboats. Even more so for racing boats.

A future project that would have a large market almost immediatly would be a system ready to instal as an internal engine. It would probably be easier to build actually, and there are a lot of 35hp diesels and gas motors in old sailboats that need replacing. Since many of these boats are used exclusively for day sailing once or twice a week a drop in system would be very enticing.

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post #84 of 84 Old 12-14-2015
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Re: Would anybody be interested in an electric outboard like this?

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
The biggest issue I can see testing on sailboats is that in large part your system is overspecced for most sailboats that use outboards. That being said almost any moderate displacement hull would be an ideal test boat. Say around 10,000lbs or so and obviously set up with an outboard already. A number of 30' boats with old Atomic-4 engines have been converted to outboards so you may be able to find one.

Typically these boats will use a 20hp or so outboard, any boat much bigger is almost certainly going to use an internal diesel and a motor mount may be difficult to find.

Actually by slowing down the prop and going to a larger diameter your engine is already going to be far superior to most outboards on sailboats. Where prop slip and cavitation are often the limiting factors. In large part because even at top speed a 30' sailboat is going to be motoring at 7kn, and almost all 20hp outboards are proper to be doing 25kn.

This may be too far out of his wheelhouse to get him interested, but there are few people whose word would be worth more about your engine than Bob Perry. His report would have instant credence in the sailing world, and he is local to you.

One of the features you may want to think seriously about is while your system is about the same weight as a traditional instal, it allows you to mount half the weight almost anywhere in the boat. Getting the weight off of the stern is a huge advantage for sailboats. Even more so for racing boats.

A future project that would have a large market almost immediatly would be a system ready to instal as an internal engine. It would probably be easier to build actually, and there are a lot of 35hp diesels and gas motors in old sailboats that need replacing. Since many of these boats are used exclusively for day sailing once or twice a week a drop in system would be very enticing.
Bob Perry looks like a great person to ask.

We've tried to keep our system as simple and one-size-fits-most as possible. An inboard system would change our cooling approach. Currently, our motor and gear set are passively cooled by being in-line with the prop, underwater, and the power electronics are cooled using a closed cooling loop. We could use the same cooling approach with a pod drive, but an inboard with just a shaft and a prop outside the hull would change things. On the business side, an inboard would have different channel issues.

I'll take your suggestion on the 30 ft sailboats with 20 HP outboards into account. That sounds like a good avenue.

Please keep in mind that even though our motor is capable of 20 kW and can provide the propulsion of up to 35-40 HP outboards, it is also very close to the same efficiency level when operated at lower power, so it can replace a 9.9 or 15 HP outboard, too, and get far better mileage. And for those who care about the technical details, our motor is particularly well suited to applications with wide variance in required power, because conventional outboards do such a poor job at that. A typical gas outboard is horrendously inefficient when operating at 1/4 power or less, but ours is not.
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