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post #21 of 27 Old 06-22-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

Suppose that you could put 400 lbs in the mid ship, and the 90 lb with the out board, and 90 lb in the anchor closet way forward.

If you could do this, then you would have a pretty balanced set up. With the people moveable ballast in the cockpit, I should think that you would have a fairly balanced circumstance.

If this could happen, would this not work? Assuming of course that you spread the gear and food in an attention to balance on the boat. It would be the same weight wise as having no motor and just movable balast people and the light centerboard which is really no help at all.
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post #22 of 27 Old 06-22-2016
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

Your 400 pounds in the mid-ship does nothing for the pitching issue. Dead weight is of no advantage to sailing whatsoever. Overburdened sailboats tend to crash into waves, then pitch, then hobby horse. Proper boats glide over the seas without crashing and pitching.

If you need those motors then they must be there and you will just need to suffer the consequences.

The simple rule for all sailboats is to keep them as light as possible and move whatever weight you can to low in the mid-section.

There is no minimum wave height at which pitching is not an issue. Even waves of just inches slow a boat. They slow my planing dinghy too. Mirror flat water with a nice breeze is best, obviously. Now whether you care about speed and comfort is another matter.

Two outboards seems ridiculous to me. That makes four ways to move the boat: Two motors, paddling and perhaps sailing if she is not too heavy with motors, fuel, batteries, crew and stores to make any way at all.

Did I read that you need the larger motor to outrun a possible hurricane? You should be able to store that motor ashore because hurricanes don't just pop up unannounced.

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post #23 of 27 Old 06-22-2016
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
In a little boat like mine, I wouldn't sail in those conditions. And if I had to, worrying about hobby horsing would not be one of my concerns.
It should be. One reason is comfort, and the other is speed. Hobby horsing can cut STW by 50% or more.

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I'd like to do that..... but I couldn't run up and down the deck carrying nothing since I don't have a deck.
WWPs have decks. What do you have if not the WWP you have been talking about?

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I fail to understand how the addition of 30 more pounds on the stern would suddenly cause a horrible rocking motion, bad pointing, bad leeward steerage, poor light wind when having two 215 lb adults sitting at the stern, one 60 lb motor, and one 30 lb gas tank did not.
Think about the algebra and physics you had in high school. Consider the implications of a SQUARE relationship. Every little bit makes a huge impact.

I have to conclude that while the potential is certainly there, those who have experienced it, must sail in waters that are quite different than where I sail.

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Suppose that you could put 400 lbs in the mid ship, and the 90 lb with the out board, and 90 lb in the anchor closet way forward.
See above.

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If you could do this, then you would have a pretty balanced set up. With the people moveable ballast in the cockpit, I should think that you would have a fairly balanced circumstance.
Balance, whatever that means is not the issue at all. Get the weight out of the ends. We can talk about the math but the easy answer is that weight in the ends is bad.

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post #24 of 27 Old 06-22-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

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Two outboards seems ridiculous to me. That makes four ways to move the boat: Two motors, paddling and perhaps sailing if she is not too heavy with motors, fuel, batteries, crew and stores to make any way at all.

.
All motor boats up here have two out boards. There is almost no way to call the Coasties, they are too far away and separated by 1500 foot mountains. The number of other vessels powered or sailed is extremely small---most often zero.

There are no marinas and the nearest tow company is nearly 70 miles away.

If your primary motor dies, and the wind either dies or turns nasty, then you will drift until you flounder on a sharp rocky shore with the tide. Up here you are on your own if you experience a motor malfunction and weather or wind or waves either die or get nasty. Paddling in impossible. and when you sink due to hitting a rock in the middle of the bay or on a shore---still no one will even see you there.

After having my primary motor die last year, being unable to reach anyone including the Coastguard, and drifting backwards on the 12 foot tide for 5 hours, heading toward rocks, where the water is way too deep for an anchor, we were very very very lucky that someone heard our mayday after 5 hours and in the dark. Most of the sailing was on a bright sun on a beautiful day.

If you sailed where I sail, believe me when I tell you, you would seriously think about another motor as back up. Everyone does.

Since you have no answer to the required equipment where I sail, I guess that I will just have to deal with the consequences.
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

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Balance, whatever that means is not the issue at all. Get the weight out of the ends. We can talk about the math but the easy answer is that weight in the ends is bad.
You have no solution to my problem and seem oblivious to the issues even though I have described them very clearly.

Since I cannot get rid of the motor where I sail, the only option is to not sail at all, or deal with the consequences the best I can.

Thanks for trying to assist, I think.
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post #26 of 27 Old 06-22-2016
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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

My boat is a bit butt-heavy. I'm moving both my batteries and a waterjug from under the cockpit to just in front of the keel pivot.

Perhaps you have some extra junk in the trunk that you could move forward. Not all the way out to the bow, but just closer to the middle of the boat.

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Re: Outboards and sailboat balance question

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My boat is a bit butt-heavy. I'm moving both my batteries and a waterjug from under the cockpit to just in front of the keel pivot.

Perhaps you have some extra junk in the trunk that you could move forward. Not all the way out to the bow, but just closer to the middle of the boat.
The only thing that is behind the dagger board(400 lb) in the center of the boat is the motor, the 3 gallon gas can and the people in the cockpit. The aft sleeping births have some storage below then, but other than flotation I don't keep anything in them other than extra line. The boat is only 1200 lb without the motor, and about 1350 with all gear and the motors. Up to four people add 500 to 800 lbs. Other than the OB and the people, all gear is stored within two feet of the dagger board in mid ships.

The semi-displacement hull looks like a Coast Guard Cutter with a steel daggerboard.
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