Staysails as original equipment? - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 34 Old 01-17-2016 Thread Starter
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I see a lot of ads for Crealocks that list mast tangs and deck hardware as features, but apparently don't have staysails as part of the inventory. Did a number of new buyers just elect to not purchase the inner jib? Also, I'm looking at a Crealock 31 that doesn't appear to have the deck attachment hardware at all. Anyone know if some hulls (this one is an '88) didn't even come with the deck hardware?

Edit: this one is an '88

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post #2 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

On the 34 at least, a cutter rig was an option. So it is entirely possible some came rigged as sloops, however, if the boat was sold as a cutter, I would expect a staysail to come with it.

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post #3 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

Our 34 was made and rigged as a sloop. It had no deck hardware at all (tracks, runner attachments, tack plate, etc.). The mast did have runner and forestay tangs. I added everything missing when we converted to a cutter.

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post #4 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

Hi Dave,
I don't want to argue with you, and Mr. Perry could confirm this, but I think a cutter places the mast in a different position on the boat than a sloop, thus it would be difficult to convert a true sloop to a cutter. It should be easy to see if that were true, have you ever compared your boat to a factory built cutter 34?
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post #5 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

Unless the interiors between a 34 cutter and sloop are different, the masts would be in the same place due to where the compression post is located. Never seen the sloop rigged version so I don't know for sure if the post is in a different location.

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post #6 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

I"m old fashioned, or maybe just overly attached to old-fashioned ideas. But two headsails are not the determining difference between a sloop and a cutter (and there is no such thing as a cutter/ketch). On a cutter, the mast is more aft than on a sloop, back near the center of the boat. Bob Perry's book asserts that it's near the center of the sail plan, not the center of the boat, thus taking the bowsprit and any boomkin into account (at least, that's how I remember it). If the mast is ahead of the center, then it's a staysail sloop (or staysail ketch), not a cutter. Wikipedia agrees, for what that's worth ...
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post #7 of 34 Old 01-18-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

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Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum View Post
... Bob Perry's book asserts that it's near the center of the sail plan, not the center of the boat, thus taking the bowsprit and any boomkin into account ...
I was comparing the drawings of the Valiant 40 vs the Crealock 37 and both have the mast at the center of the sail plan. The interesting thing is the Valiant's mast is further back than the Crealock's, but both are ahead of the center of the boat.

Both of those, as well as the Crealock 34, are classic cutter designs so it appears the position of the mast fore or aft isn't the important factor, it's the position relative to the sail plan.

It appears you could convert a sloop to a cutter by adding a staysail as long as you also re-cut the main, re-sized the jib and swapped out the boom to keep the sail plan's center over the mast.

My guess is the Crealock sloop option is the cutter design with a bigger jib and minus the staysail gear.

Note I have no yacht design expertise so I could be wrong about this. Just speculating.

Craig
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post #8 of 34 Old 01-19-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

I believe that common usage is more important to the majority of sailors than any esoteric description by word or book. The universally accepted common usage of "Cutter" is a sailing vessel with two headsails or alternately a Coast Guard motorized vessel.
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post #9 of 34 Old 01-19-2016 Thread Starter
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"Cutter sloop"
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post #10 of 34 Old 01-19-2016
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Re: Staysails as original equipment?

The incorrect usage of "cutter" for a sailing vessel with two headsails is indeed very common, but I think calling it "universally accepted" is a bit over the top. Well, actually, it's more akin to the inapt use of the word -- it's simply incorrect.

It does happen sometimes that repeated incorrect use of a word eventually changes the meaning of it, but I don't have a sense that we're there yet on this one.

Please park your cutter-sloop next to my schooner-ketch, left side please. We'll tie all the ropes up to the steering wheel, duck into the restroom for a moment, then get some beers from the kitchen and talk about this at the picnic table (the one in front of the steering wheel).

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