Chain/Rope rode for PSC31 - SailNet Community
 7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 01-27-2019 Thread Starter
S/V Interlude, PSC31
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 61
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Well a skiing accident has laid me up with way too much time on my hands to ponder spring commissioning! We returned to sailing just a couple years ago after 25+ years away with the purchase of a PSC31 (scheel keel, 4ft. draft) that we spent the first year with her as our floataminium getting her slowly ready as monies and time allowed while we sailed a 16 foot sloop (Compac 16) to remember what this thing called sailing was all about. Last year was the take her out in local waters (Chesapeake/Rappahannock.) to learn her systems and mostly how to dock her (backing in with close quarters) short or single handed, and the occasional night on the hook close by.

This is the year I plan to go for several nights at a time (single handing much), staying on the hook, and thus am now looking critically at what I currently have for ground tackle. Our boat came with a CQR 35# and about a boats length of chain (30ish) and probably 100ft. of rope. I have pulled this combination up a few times, never in a blow and with the motor in neutral and auto helm on taking up scope as i haul the rope aboard to guarantee no prop fouling, then shift into gear and take up the chain as she moves forward to break anchor loose). I am closer to 70 than 60 and as I heal from my ski accident am acutely aware of my lack of a younger body! I am seriously considering a vertical manual windlass secondary to having a simpler, less to go wrong system, with less up front cost, and a newer type of anchor with the appropriate type of chain and rope for the windlass and shift the CQR and it's associated rode to the other bow roller. She also has a Fortress anchor in the stern locker that can be used on the stern anchor roller. I have dreams of going along the east coast and down into the Caribbean but at least for the next couple years will be exploring the bay.

I am very aware that 50 people will have 50 different options. I am not planning to circumnavigate, I am mostly in charge of when I go and return so can try to avoid foul weather when possible (clearly not always possible). A clock can be a dangerous item on a vessel so I will be traveling when it makes sense, not on an inflexible schedule. I am looking for folk's input for my new ground tackle for our boat, who cruise where i do now and where I hope to in the future, on a boat like mine, and knowing my plan to keep it simple and not carry unnecessary equipment and weight.

Thank you all in advance for the knowledge that is so graciously shared here.

Last edited by Interlude; 01-27-2019 at 02:29 PM.
Interlude is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 01-27-2019
Senior Member
 
arisatx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hilton Head Island
Posts: 335
Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Interlude:

Congratulations on the PSC and getting back into sailing!

I like your strategy of getting a manual windlass. You can sometimes find used ones when cruisers "upgrade" to electric. My buddy with a PSC37 gave his away.

A new generation anchor like a Spade or Rocna (one that fits on your bow roller) will let you sleep better at night. Esp. if you make your way down thru the ICW and have reversing tidal currents. Here is a good compilation of anchor tests by SV Panope https://youtu.be/l59f-OjWoq0

I would consider having more chain than 30ft, even if it means you don't carry your CQR and rode as a backup. Another idea is to use 8 plait rode as it stows more compactly and stronger than 3 strand. Yale Brait is a popular option, although the splice is a bit more complicated than 3 strand Yale Cordage :: Nylon Brait

Get out there and enjoy!

Regards,
Ted
V42#186
s/v Little Wing
arisatx is offline  
post #3 of 26 Old 01-27-2019
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,636
Thanks: 4
Thanked 127 Times in 125 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
Well a skiing accident has laid me up with way too much time on my hands to ponder spring commissioning! We returned to sailing just a couple years ago after 25+ years away with the purchase of a PSC31 (scheel keel, 4ft. draft) that we spent the first year with her as our floataminium getting her slowly ready as monies and time allowed while we sailed a 16 foot sloop (Compac 16) to remember what this thing called sailing was all about. Last year was the take her out in local waters (Chesapeake/Rappahannock.) to learn her systems and mostly how to dock her (backing in with close quarters) short or single handed, and the occasional night on the hook close by.

This is the year I plan to go for several nights at a time (single handing much), staying on the hook, and thus am now looking critically at what I currently have for ground tackle. Our boat came with a CQR 35# and about a boats length of chain (30ish) and probably 100ft. of rope. I have pulled this combination up a few times, never in a blow and with the motor in neutral and auto helm on taking up scope as i haul the rope aboard to guarantee no prop fouling, then shift into gear and take up the chain as she moves forward to break anchor loose). I am closer to 70 than 60 and as I heal from my ski accident am acutely aware of my lack of a younger body! I am seriously considering a vertical manual windlass secondary to having a simpler, less to go wrong system, with less up front cost, and a newer type of anchor with the appropriate type of chain and rope for the windlass and shift the CQR and it's associated rode to the other bow roller. She also has a Fortress anchor in the stern locker that can be used on the stern anchor roller. I have dreams of going along the east coast and down into the Caribbean but at least for the next couple years will be exploring the bay.

I am very aware that 50 people will have 50 different options. I am not planning to circumnavigate, I am mostly in charge of when I go and return so can try to avoid foul weather when possible (clearly not always possible). A clock can be a dangerous item on a vessel so I will be traveling when it makes sense, not on an inflexible schedule. I am looking for folk's input for my new ground tackle for our boat, who cruise where i do now and where I hope to in the future, on a boat like mine, and knowing my plan to keep it simple and not carry unnecessary equipment and weight.

Thank you all in advance for the knowledge that is so graciously shared here.
Well, at least you know you are going to get multiple opinions!

I've had back, wrist, and shoulder problems. I'm good now, but I have zero interest in fighting with ground tackle. So you have identified one factor.

With shoal draft and cruising the Chesapeake, your rode is fine. There is nothing to cut on and you can anchor in water less than 10 feet deep for a lifetime. If you visit coral or rock country, the all-chain thing will come up, but cross that road when you come to it. There is NO REASON to buy a world cruising boat until you are doing that, a very common mistake. You have a nice Bay boat that will be easy to handle and safe.

Windlass. I've generally not felt a manual windlass was that helpful on a small boat. I'd either...
* Go electric (a small vertical windlass is not expensive and they are very reliable on smaller boats). They are really nice. You will need to splice the rode to the chain either way. Not difficult.
* Use lighter tackle (if no electric windlass). I'd be perfectly comfortable with a 25-pound Rocna and 10-15 feet of chain. This will be controversial, but it will work. A loop of chain as a kellet, for occasional use, might be handy. Again, the reason this works is that there is no reason to anchor in an exposed location on the Chesapeake. It will be just s secure as your 35-pound CQR, just lighter.

I'm sure someone will say "I have no clue." In fact, I've done a LOT of anchoring and testing in the Chesapeake. My feeling is that if you want low-strain anchoring on the Chesapeake, make sure you spend the nigh cozily up a small creek. But really, you're not getting younger, I would consider the electric windlass. They're really nice.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"

Last edited by pdqaltair; 01-27-2019 at 03:10 PM.
pdqaltair is online now  
 
post #4 of 26 Old 01-27-2019
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,685
Thanks: 2
Thanked 94 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Opinions are a dime a dozen. When I set off too cruise I installed an Maxwell VWC1500 windlass and 200' of 5/16" and kept the 36$ CQR that came with the boat. 28 yrs of Anchoring and probably dragged on a bit 3 or 4 times and we don't stay in moorings or in marinas. You need a proper snubber. Mine is 1" braid on braid nylon with a mooring compensator. I typically lay down 100', never less than 75'

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #5 of 26 Old 01-27-2019
Barquito
 
Barquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 3,352
Thanks: 1
Thanked 87 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

I have been considering getting a manual vs. electric windlass. The dig on the manual is that they are slow. Normally, slow should not be a problem for a sailor. However, if you find yourself needing to get off in a hurry, the extra minutes may matter. Also, if pulling the hook is a big effort, you are less likely to pull it up and reset when you question how well it set. A manual windlass itself wont cost much less than an electric. However, electric will have significant other installation expenses.
SanderO likes this.

Valiant 32
Barquito is online now  
post #6 of 26 Old 01-28-2019 Thread Starter
S/V Interlude, PSC31
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 61
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Arisatx: Thank you for your response. Had actually just watched he SV Panope video and now have a Spade on my short list of a new anchor for our boat! Hope to visit Hilton Head someday by boat!

pdqaltair: Nice to have someone who knows our little corner of the world called 'The Bay' so well reply! Know that an electric windlass would be easier, though I am a less is more kinda guy and am hoping to talk to a fellow who has a boat like ours for sale up in Tracy's Landing with a windlass we hope to get. Pacific Seacraft 31's, especially with the shoal draft keel make for a nice coastal cruiser, though they are designed for passage making. A Catalina 30 or the like would probably have made a roomier and less expensive Bay boat, but I had dreamed of a PSC 31 since we gave up sailing in 1989. She is quite capable of taking me around the world, it's just I'm not!

...also a fellow in our marina regularly takes out his Corsair F24 trimaran. Golly are they quick!

SanderO: we plan to keep the CQR but also get another hook (hopefully lighter) for the bow. Interlude, though quite capable of world cruising, was mostly sailed here on the Chesapeake since the initial owner acquired her new in 1989. The CQR has been on the bow roller since then, with no windlass and the rode arrangement she presently has (though not the same chain and rope!). many improvements have been made over the years in many areas in the marine industry since 1989, and I hope to make judicious use of some of them to extent my ability to sail since getting back into it later in life. The reason the first owner reluctantly sold her was his physical limitations. She was christened 'Interlude' in 1989 as he had just retired and the name fit. Some day I may be faced with the same prospect (been retired for several years now), but gunna fight it!

Barquito: Yup, a quality manual windlass is not tons less expensive than an electric one of similar quality and capacity. (our boats are very similar in displacement) You are also correct that install costs are significantly more for the electric and that type would also be less useful for a 31ft boat's anchor lockers as the motor takes up valuable space below decks and a horizontal type takes up valuable space above. She also has all bronze ports, pipes, cleats, etc., and though not the main reason for the one I have my eyes on, the fact that it is bronze is not lost on me! Maybe your Valiant 32 does as well? Many electric models do have a manual override but that is usually geared 1:1 so uber slow and not easy. The model I will more than like be acquiring can not only handle both chain and rope (spliced) on the chain wheel but also has a capstan so that I would now have another capable line handling winch on the foredeck for what ever task I may wish to use it for. It just fits with my overall less is more philosophy. Well getting a sailboat kinda is in the face of that belief, oh well!

I am still debating the amount of chain and rope for the new hook. I am going to be in the Bay for the next stage of my return to sailing and clearly don't need tons of rode and would ideally like to have rope out in sufficient quantity to preclude the need for a snubber all the time. Also investigating the prospect of a quality chain stopper to take strain off of the windlass, though equally for being able to interrupt a retrieval process, whether by hand, regardless of windlass, without having the hook disappear on me back to the bottom!

Below is her foredeck. The anchor when not out sailing, is secured to a deck attachment point for an inner forestay. She has all of the necessary items to become a cutter, just no need for a 'clutter' rig till ready for longer trips!
Attached Thumbnails
Interlude Foredeck.jpg  

Last edited by Interlude; 01-28-2019 at 12:19 PM.
Interlude is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 01-28-2019
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,685
Thanks: 2
Thanked 94 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Interlude,

So much of the anchoring thing is about the architecture of your bow. The architecture of the Contest36s lent itself to an efficient anchoring system. Anchor locker is large and all the chain drops well clear of the windlass motor. It does pile up at rare times, but I can knock the pile down.

My all chain system DOES require a snubber. It's very easy to deploy/attach and remove. The hook slips into one of the links and I keep some tension on the snubber as I let more chain down with the foot switch. The snubber has a hard rubber mooring compensator about 4-6 feet from the chain hook. I do NOT let out more chain submerging the compensator. I tie off the bitter end of the snubber to a deck cleat and let out more chain until it drops vertically from the bow roller. If there is wind a decent pull on the chain the mooring compensator will untwist a bit. This indicates that the anchor has set and the chain has tension in it. If there is little wind I back down under power and again "read" the compensator to tell me when the anchor has dug in.

Retrieving is easy... foot switch up while I keep tension on the snubber line until the chain hook clears the roller and before it comes to the windlass. I unhook the snubber from the chain and resume up foot switch until the anchor is up and nestled into the bow roller. No chain. Snubber is lead around the windlass gypsy.

Anchoring is easy BECAUSE the GEAR and the ARCHITECTURE.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #8 of 26 Old 01-28-2019 Thread Starter
S/V Interlude, PSC31
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 61
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Hey SanderO, thank you for the information about your boat!
Interlude is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 01-28-2019
Senior Member
 
arisatx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hilton Head Island
Posts: 335
Thanks: 9
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
Arisatx: Thank you for your response. Had actually just watched he SV Panope video and now have a Spade on my short list of a new anchor for our boat! Hope to visit Hilton Head someday by boat! ...

SanderO: we plan to keep the CQR but also get another hook (hopefully lighter) for the bow.
FYI, as you mention "Spade" and "lighter", I had an Aluminum Spade but replaced it with a galvanized model and unsurprisingly, it sets much better.

Regards,
Ted
V42#186
s/v Little Wing
arisatx is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 01-31-2019 Thread Starter
S/V Interlude, PSC31
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 61
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Chain/Rope rode for PSC31

Many thanks again for those who have tenured suggestions for our boat and our cruising ground's needs. What I am hearing is that the mixed rode of 30' chain and enough rope to give me a 7:1 scope for our current cruising grounds is gunna be sufficient (I will then have the ability to set 3 anchors if ever needed with two bow (CQR + New) on rollers and one stern (Fortress) on roller. I am also hearing desire/need for more chain if heading to more exposed and or rocky/coral bottoms for anchorages. With little desire to equip a boat that is admittedly designed for long distance passage making with stuff to do so until I am ready to do so, it seems to make sense to get the windlass needs squared away and simply set the new rode up for 'now' cruising and add the extra chain at a later date. Leaning towards a Spade anchor as the new primary (know they are a little pricey) and move the CQR and current rode to secondary.

Anyone else out there with a boat like ours, sailing in the Chesapeake in particular, have any further ideas? Gunna try to pull the trigger when the good spring commissioning sales begin.

Many thanks in advance. One of the other discoveries of a return to sailing after so many years away, is the wonderful sailing community we have encountered both on forums such as this and in person.
Interlude is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anchor Rode Size and Rope Type hriehl1 Gear & Maintenance 4 01-24-2015 04:01 PM
Chain to chain connectors on anchor chain kwaltersmi Gear & Maintenance 12 10-16-2013 10:24 AM
elastic-anchor-rode / kinetic-rope paradox HenkMeuzelaar Gear & Maintenance 4 12-26-2008 03:44 AM
Storing Rope & Chain Anchor Rode weewillystine Gear & Maintenance 2 04-22-2003 02:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome