Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34 - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 400
Thanks: 40
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

I am still working on my 'slow-burn' refit. The trip I did this past summer pointed out another system that needs some attention. My ST4000 wheel pilot either needs a rebuild (less desirable), or some sort of upgrade. I'm thinking of possibly getting a ST4000+ MkII Wheel Drive Kit from Defender (not much more than a thorough upgrade of the old ST4000), which I believe will still play nice with the old ST4000 display and controller, etc... Is that true?

If I do that, I'll still have an autopilot that doesn't connect to the NMEA2000 network, so I'm also considering completely replacing the old ST4000 with a ST4000+ MkII (a little more than double the money for the wheel drive). If I do that, does anyone know to what extent the ST4000+ MkII will integrate with a B&G system? I just upgraded my instruments last winter to the B&G Triton and at a later date expect to add a B&G plotter.

I really don't want to drop the huge amount of money for the B&G below deck system and eventually I'm going to need some sort of wind vane system, so I'd rather spend the money on that. So then I'd have a wind vane and a wheel pilot. However, the need for that is still about 5 years off (that's when I'd like to do a trans-Atlantic).

TIA for your input.

-- Bill
"Belle Voile"
PSC 34
elliowb is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,726
Thanks: 99
Thanked 205 Times in 197 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Your best bet if you intend on mix and matching manufacturers is to create a “backbone” of NMEA2000

That way you can connect them all together.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is online now  
post #3 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 400
Thanks: 40
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Your best bet if you intend on mix and matching manufacturers is to create a “backbone” of NMEA2000

That way you can connect them all together.
Thanks for your comment Chef. I installed a NMEA2000 backbone when I did the new B&G instruments. Right now I have a MHU, depth sounder, 3 displays (two at the helm and one at the chart table), and a Vesper XB8000 on the backbone.

What I'm not familiar with is just how transparent the Raymarine Seatalk system is with NMEA2000. Most useful for my purposes would be the ability for the ST4000+ MkII to receive wind angle data from the MHU, so that I could set the auto pilot to sail on a particular tack. Since the XB8000 has wifi capability, it'd also be handy to be able to make heading changes using my iPad or iPhone (currently I use the iPad as my chart plotter and also get all the instrument data there as well).

-- Bill
"Belle Voile"
PSC 34
elliowb is online now  
 
post #4 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,726
Thanks: 99
Thanked 205 Times in 197 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by elliowb View Post
Thanks for your comment Chef. I installed a NMEA2000 backbone when I did the new B&G instruments. Right nowf I have a MHU, depth sounder, 3 displays (two at the helm and one at the chart table), and a Vesper XB8000 on the backbone.

What I'm not familiar with is just how transparent the Raymarine Seatalk system is with NMEA2000. Most useful for my purposes would be the ability for the ST4000+ MkII to receive wind angle data from the MHU, so that I could set the auto pilot to sail on a particular tack. Since the XB8000 has wifi capability, it'd also be handy to be able to make heading changes using my iPad or iPhone (currently I use the iPad as my chart plotter and also get all the instrument data there as well).
You can connect the RM auto to the backbone . However I would check with RM to see if it will recognize it. It should. I have the same vesper AIS as part of my system. Not sure about using the iPad as the HUB. I use and I pad also, and BT into the RM MFD. I need / have radar and the IPad does not support that so I have the RMC95 as the core of the system.

My I pad is used more as a secondary to some of my electronics.

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Raymarin...ries-C516.aspx
elliowb likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is online now  
post #5 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,520
Thanks: 139
Thanked 196 Times in 187 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Would offer the following thoughts having cruised a psc34 for some years.
A below deck AP with drive arm directly on the rudder post allows steering in the event of failure of normal steering path. Wheel mounted puts strain on all steering components. Also if there’s any play electrical consumption increases.
Protect the fluxgate compass and rudder angle indicator. Not much space inside the canoe stern so careful planning required.
If you intend to add a windvane a tiller pilot actuating the vane is simple, cheap and given vane not main rudder is developing steering force adequate to steer the boat. It’s a easy addition on Hydrovanes.
Downside of Hydrovane on any canoe sterned boat is difficult access to it. Especially it’s nylon rudder. Upside to servopendulum (monitor etc.) is it’s easy to raise rudder. Going backwards under power with a hydrovane on a psc34 requires thought and practice.
In past the original PSC 37 was a tiller steered yawl. The 34 is small enough and tracks well enough that a tiller pilot should work. I couldn’t figure out a way to do it as mine had a wheel.
SanderO and chef2sail like this.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is online now  
post #6 of 13 Old 3 Weeks Ago
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,299
Thanks: 6
Thanked 116 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Hello,

On my boat I have:
Raymarine Evo 100 Autopilot with wheel pilot drive (not sure of the model, i think it is the MK4000 mark II but I'm not sure).
Raymine ST60 depth, speed, wind instruments
B&G Vulcan 7
Simrad RS35 VHF with AIS receiver

I have all of those devices networked together on a NMEA 2000 network. All devices share data and it works very well.

With the B&G plotter and Raymarine Instruments and Autopilot I can have the AP
steer to a heading
steer to a wind angle
steer to a waypoint

Note that the B&B Vulcan can not control the AP. You MUST use the AP control head to engage the AP or make changes to the AP. For example, if I am steering to a heading, say 70 magnetic and I want to change to 75 magnetic, i must is the P70 control head. The Vulcan plotter cannot control the autopilot.

Additionally, if you gave a Ray autopilot and raymarine releases new firmware for the AP, you can't upgrade the FW with a B&G plotter. You must have a Ray plotter or remove the AP and send to Raymarine for any upgrades.

Otherwise it's all plug and play (once you get some configuration settings correct).

Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BarryL is online now  
post #7 of 13 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 400
Thanks: 40
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
You can connect the RM auto to the backbone . However I would check with RM to see if it will recognize it. It should. I have the same vesper AIS as part of my system. Not sure about using the iPad as the HUB. I use and I pad also, and BT into the RM MFD. I need / have radar and the IPad does not support that so I have the RMC95 as the core of the system.

My I pad is used more as a secondary to some of my electronics.

https://www.thegpsstore.com/Raymarin...ries-C516.aspx
The Vesper Marine app is very helpful for getting the instrument readings and I use iSailor for navigation (the AIS overlay works nicely on iSailor).

I noticed the Raymarine has an iPad app, but no mention of ability to control the EV-100.

-- Bill
"Belle Voile"
PSC 34
elliowb is online now  
post #8 of 13 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 400
Thanks: 40
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Would offer the following thoughts having cruised a psc34 for some years.
A below deck AP with drive arm directly on the rudder post allows steering in the event of failure of normal steering path. Wheel mounted puts strain on all steering components. Also if there’s any play electrical consumption increases.
Protect the fluxgate compass and rudder angle indicator. Not much space inside the canoe stern so careful planning required.
If you intend to add a windvane a tiller pilot actuating the vane is simple, cheap and given vane not main rudder is developing steering force adequate to steer the boat. It’s a easy addition on Hydrovanes.
Downside of Hydrovane on any canoe sterned boat is difficult access to it. Especially it’s nylon rudder. Upside to servopendulum (monitor etc.) is it’s easy to raise rudder. Going backwards under power with a hydrovane on a psc34 requires thought and practice.
In past the original PSC 37 was a tiller steered yawl. The 34 is small enough and tracks well enough that a tiller pilot should work. I couldn’t figure out a way to do it as mine had a wheel.
There's no doubt that a below deck system provides a valuable redundancy. However, the price for that redundancy is very steep. So far, the wheel pilot has served my purposes on the Lakes very well. I recognize that sailing on the ocean is quite different, but that isn't going to happen for at least 5 years.

I like your suggestion of a Hydrovane. That looks like a nice, independent setup. Going backward on a PSC34 without a Hydrovane is a PITA too. I try to avoid situations where I have to go in reverse. So far, so good, knock on wood.

-- Bill
"Belle Voile"
PSC 34
elliowb is online now  
post #9 of 13 Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 400
Thanks: 40
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hello,

On my boat I have:
Raymarine Evo 100 Autopilot with wheel pilot drive (not sure of the model, i think it is the MK4000 mark II but I'm not sure).
Raymine ST60 depth, speed, wind instruments
B&G Vulcan 7
Simrad RS35 VHF with AIS receiver

I have all of those devices networked together on a NMEA 2000 network. All devices share data and it works very well.

With the B&G plotter and Raymarine Instruments and Autopilot I can have the AP
steer to a heading
steer to a wind angle
steer to a waypoint

Note that the B&B Vulcan can not control the AP. You MUST use the AP control head to engage the AP or make changes to the AP. For example, if I am steering to a heading, say 70 magnetic and I want to change to 75 magnetic, i must is the P70 control head. The Vulcan plotter cannot control the autopilot.

Additionally, if you gave a Ray autopilot and raymarine releases new firmware for the AP, you can't upgrade the FW with a B&G plotter. You must have a Ray plotter or remove the AP and send to Raymarine for any upgrades.

Otherwise it's all plug and play (once you get some configuration settings correct).

Barry
Thanks Barry. I would think that the B&G instruments should work with the EV-100, but RM is still sticking too it's weird (at least it seems so to me) proprietary SeaTalk, even though NMEA2K is supposed to be industry standard. I guess that's what I'll have to give up to save a couple thousand and upgrade my autopilot.

-- Bill
"Belle Voile"
PSC 34

Last edited by elliowb; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:11 AM.
elliowb is online now  
post #10 of 13 Old 5 Days Ago
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Northern California Wilderness
Posts: 69
Thanks: 23
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Upgrade Autopilot on a PSC34

I replaced my decrepit st4000 wheel pilot with a CPT wheel pilot on my 37 recently. This is a very simple but seemingly robust system. So far I have only used it for a few thousand miles crossing from the marshals to the Philippines but I found it to work well and did not use my windvane for any of the trip. The CPT is easy to install.

Grant

s/v Vinadante
granche1 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome