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Overboard discharge in RI/CT/NY

  • I have overboard discharge, never use it. Promise.

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • I have overboard discharge, pleading the 5th....

    Votes: 4 23.5%
  • Have it but wish I didn't, may remove it at some point.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Don't have it, wish I had the option.

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Don't have it, don't want it.

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • I'm a 1%er and actually need it off shore.

    Votes: 7 41.2%

Overboard Discharge Yea or Nay?

8K views 77 replies 18 participants last post by  Interlude 
#1 · (Edited)
Do you have overboard discharge? My previous boats had a Y valve and a hand pump. I rarely ever used them.

Upon purchase of new to me C36MKII, I replaced my head and plumbing. We decided not to re-install the macerator pump and overboard discharge. We survived last season with a couple of close calls as far as getting pumped out at the last minute. I think the holding tank is actually smaller than my last two 30 footers.

So I started thinking that it might be a good idea to have it in case I can't get a pump out.

Then I started thinking about where I would legally discharge.

It appears to me that the waters of LI Sound, Fishers Island Sound, Narragansett Bay, and most of BI Sound are all no discharge. This means that almost NO ONE I know should be ever touching that Y valve.

Are Ya'll doing the midnight tango or is your overboard discharge all just a waste of time and money. And don't go telling me about how going offshore cuz I see rivers full of boats that go no where beyond the sounds.

Look at me, LOOK AT ME, don't you lie to me.
 
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#2 ·
We sail out toward Block or Cutty or MVY routinely and have ample opportunities to pump overboard. I would never want to be off the dock for more than a couple of days and feel obligated to land a pump out slip routinely.

I'll also look you in the eye and say I don't measure the three miles to the inch. Never ever midnight dump in a harbor or confined waters. However, the rule was never written to account for science, it's just the limit of the State's ability to regulate. If you sat at the mouth of Narragansett Bay on an outgoing tide, it can't be any different than being 3 miles offshore on an incoming tide.

I would never intentionally limit my options, unless I was a lake sailor and would never be afforded the alternative. Having no pump out might limit those interested in buying it one day too.
 
#13 ·
We sail out toward Block or Cutty or MVY routinely and have ample opportunities to pump overboard. I would never want to be off the dock for more than a couple of days and feel obligated to land a pump out slip routinely.

I'll also look you in the eye and say I don't measure the three miles to the inch. Never ever midnight dump in a harbor or confined waters. However, the rule was never written to account for science, it's just the limit of the State's ability to regulate. If you sat at the mouth of Narragansett Bay on an outgoing tide, it can't be any different than being 3 miles offshore on an incoming tide.

I would never intentionally limit my options, unless I was a lake sailor and would never be afforded the alternative. Having no pump out might limit those interested in buying it one day too.
So your poop, does it dissolve in sea water or does it just remain buoyant and float three miles out in the ebb? Just wondering. Twas a fun question but your science may, or may not be factual. :) :) Glad you follow the rule of law but it can, it is, any different.
 
#3 ·
So... you're asking what people do with their poop?

My solution has been a composter for nearly a decade. Often I will dump when out to sea, although I don't fret about whether I'm technically out 3 miles or not. Usually yes, sometimes maybe not. Just make sure it's in an area of good flow/large volume, and away from concentrations of other people.

I don't really know where my answer fits in your options ... ah, and I see you only want to know about people in your immediate area. Well, never mind...
 
#5 ·
When we are in the Sound or within 3 miles we follow the law. These states make it easy to do so with pump out boats and no disincentives to not follow ( fees)

We do have a “ Y” with mascerator after the holding tank and use it when offshore. In the Chessie we follow the law also. Wish the states made it easier though.
 
#7 ·
Minnie and I keep out boats in Narragansett Bay. Actually, I keep mine in Greenwich Bay, which is part of the Narragansett Bay Estuary. I use my macerator regularly.

I have a Vacuflush head, and 15 gallon holding tank, which from experience is good for about 8 person/days. On every trip that I make to Cuttyhunk (on my way to The 'Vineyard or Cape Cod) I pump out just west of the Buzzards Bay entrance marker, which marks the 3nm line. If I am heading to Block Island or points east, I pump out just south of "2" R Fl 4s. I can pump out almost as far east as Watch Hill, as long as I'm 3 miles out. This year I plan to make the trek to Florida (3rd time is a charm). While doing so, I expect to pump out off the 'Jersey and Delmarva shoreline.

If I were closer to New York City, and not planning to head south, I probably wouldn't bother with the overboard discharge.
 
#9 ·
ElectroScan wasn't on the list.
We have one and run it every time, even when we pee.
Then the eco freaks got Puget Sound turned into a NDZ.
Seattle's West Point treatment plant has multimillion CSO overflows whenever it rains a lot, and it rains a lot about half the year.
After all, they don't callit the Pacific North WET for nothing.

Now we are criminals after spending $1,000 to be "green".

Grrr.
 
#10 ·
I imagine one might find a place to pump out in Martinique, Guadeloupe, St.T and possibly St. M. Otherwise, I can't remember seeing or hearing of one anywhere in the Eastern Caribbean. If your plan is to one day sail to the Caribbean, a Y valve set up might be a good idea, if a bucket is not your preferred toilet.
 
#15 ·
Agree with Capta but would note there are multiple no discharge zones in the eastern Caribbean. Right now we’re in the inner harbor of Marigot bay St Lucia. It’s a no discharge zone.
We have Y valves and holding tanks for both heads. Generally go awhile with valves closed. Then awhile with valves closed. Find that prevents sediment at the bottom of the tanks but long periods with all plumbing hoses empty. So no permination and no clogged hoses. Pee is sterile. Go over the rail at night so pumps don’t wake the bride. (Use fresh for toilets).
 
#16 ·
We, of course pick up our dog poop and dispose of it in a trash container. In fact in places like Newport and Northport, the town provides he bags for this purpose.

I wonder why something similar is not available for a marine head. It's like a diaper for your head. You poop into a robust plastic bag which placed in/on the bowl. TP goes in the bag and the bag goes in the trash. It can be double bagged or more.

Boats without plumbing use portable heads which also are emptied and contents disposed of properly ashore.

I don't think urine is a health issue.

Why not scoop the poop?
 
#22 ·
Interesting comparison. Diapers are the scourge of landfills. Put the waste directly into the environment, where it will decompose, or put it into a plastic bag that will never decompose. I suppose there could be compostable bags, etc.

Every animal on earth applies their waste to the environment. It's only mass concentration that really an issue for humans.
 
#18 ·
We just switched over to a marine composing head and love it. In effect we are scooping the poop, bagging it and throwing it away on shore. When you separate the poop and the time there is no smell so the bags o’ poop are odor free.
 
#19 ·
Back in my weekend days it took 10 hours to sail out of the ndz. Or you could waste one of your weekend days of sail time sitting on your mooring for the pump-out boat to come to you and you had to be there to get pumped out.

So you figure out how useful that ndz was.
 
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#20 ·
Know there are strong proponents of composting heads here. Have yet to see a long range cruising boat use one. Be that folks going back and forth to the states from eastern Caribbean or the rtw ARC crowd or the balls to the wall high lat hardcore type.
First, for those groups direct discharge is a non issue. Pee is sterile. Due to size of innoculum, high salinity, high UV fecal microbes do not disturb the local biosphere. Second getting medium is next to impossible for long periods of time. Lastly dealing with pee buckets or medium when it’s sparky can ruin your day.
Agree composting makes great “scents” for a subset of sailors. But no “cents” for another.

The laws on this don’t truly follow the science. Having restrictions on grey water discharge in places is equally cumbersome and of little import. Having biodegradable soaps and detergents makes more sense.
 
#36 ·
Know there are strong proponents of composting heads here. Have yet to see a long range cruising boat use one. Be that folks going back and forth to the states from eastern Caribbean or the rtw ARC crowd or the balls to the wall high lat hardcore type.
First, for those groups direct discharge is a non issue. Pee is sterile. Due to size of innoculum, high salinity, high UV fecal microbes do not disturb the local biosphere. Second getting medium is next to impossible for long periods of time. Lastly dealing with pee buckets or medium when it's sparky can ruin your day.
Agree composting makes great "scents" for a subset of sailors. But no "cents" for another.

The laws on this don't truly follow the science. Having restrictions on grey water discharge in places is equally cumbersome and of little import. Having biodegradable soaps and detergents makes more sense.
A retired couple that we know is down in Mexico water now, having left in September. They still like their composting head. Actually about 4 or 5 boats in our YC have these. I have no opinion either way, but admit that it is slowly catching on.
 
#28 ·
When I was in university, studying to become a certified environmental assessor, one of the case studies we used was the issue of plastic vs paper grocery bags. Those as old as I will recall that plastic replaced paper bags because they were considered to be a better environmental option.

After an exhaustive life-cycle analysis, considering feed stock, processing, transportation, usage, and ultimate disposal, I recall the outcome actually favoured sticking with paper bags. But the environmental train was rolling, and we got rid of paper (supposedly to save the old growth forests, or was it the rain forests ... I forget).

All this is to say we sometimes (often?) make environmental choices which may not live up to their hype. While it seems intuitively obvious that people shouldn't discharge over the side, the fact (as I understand them) indicate dumping small amounts of human sewage in areas of good flow/large volume is likely the best way to deal with this pollution.

So yea! Discharge overboard -- but only in areas where there is lots of water, and where there are few people. This is what the simplistic "3-mile" limit achieves. But it's easy to achieve the same result in other areas. Just think good flow/large volume.
 
#32 ·
IMHO

Being an environmentalist is taking take of your/ our living environment and takes a personal commitment
- it makes no difference what or how others comply with preserving the environment
- it has nothing to do with what laws to avoid or lobbyists
- it has nothing to do with politics whether you are Dem/ Repub/ Indep
- it has nothing to do with who else is polluting the environment
- it is a personal choice on how you live your life
- you are not a tree hugger because you speak out about destroying any aspect of our environment
- it is not about pollution when you think no one is watching or can enforce it
- it is not about not complying because of bigger entities polluting
- it’s not specifically if you do or don’t believe in global warming
- it has nothing to do in our case if it isn’t easy to comply with holding tank / overboard dumping rules
- using analogy’s of past years doesn’t take into account that the population has grown exponentially so effects
Are different

This are all the arguments those who try and distract from the real issue ( a common tactic nowadays seen by the Press, Politicans and President)

It is a commitment and a way of living your life DESPITE others who don’t. You either walk the talk or you don’t
-
Animals in general in nature do not deficate in their homes. We don’t consider the earth our home that’s part of the issue. It’s only seen like that it seems by those who go into space and view the fragile ness of the earth.
We either feel what I do can’t/ won’t affect things. None of this should take you off your own principals.

How many times do you see a myriad of people walk by a can/ trash on the sidewalk, and then some comes by a puts it in a container. Those who dump, don’t you feel guilty what you are doing at all.

This is not meant to be argumentative just my own opinion. Having been an original participant at the first Earth Day and loving our planet earth and being enthralled still by nature, I try and live my life daily as an ENVIROMENTALIST. I also have taught to my children not by words but by doing. I want them to have something I have enjoyed and pass that on to them. I beleive you should do your part and not be deterred by others are or aren’t doing.
 
#42 ·
Animals in general in nature do not deficate in their homes. We don't consider the earth our home that's part of the issue. It's only seen like that it seems by those who go into space and view the fragile ness of the earth.
I can assure you that every fish, bird, dolphin, whale, and every other animal living in the water craps in the water they live in. It's not like on land where crapping in a certain area keeps the waste localized to that area. The water diffuses any waste, making it nigh impossible to isolate waste (unless huge distances are involved). The problem isn't environmental. Even if every boater dumped all of their waste in the water, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the waste from wildlife.

The problem is disease. There are relatively few diseases or parasites in animal waste which can infect people. Few enough that you rarely get sick from swimming in the ocean or a lake. But human waste commonly carries pathogens which can infect other people (but not other animals). That's why we restrict discharging holding tank waste into the water. Closer than 3 miles and there's a fair chance your waste could end up washing closer to shore and in contact with larger concentrations of people (beachgoers). Further than 3 miles and your waste is highly unlikely to come in contact with anyone else. Obviously there isn't an exact border delineating these two cases. But it works pretty well as a rule of thumb.

tl;dr - The discharge guidelines don't exist to protect the environment. They exist to protect people from each other.
 
#34 ·
That works. I do that also when I cruise to areas I can. However where the boat is kept on the Chesapeake, that is not possible.

Cruise ships can't do this can they?
Tankers and commercial ships?
I am asking as I don't know.

I wonder extrapolating if we should have the same rules for the airline industry. They can dump from 10,000 to 40,000 ft. It would be dispersed.

Small planes would not make much difference as small boats don't as some argue.

Some of the major carriers go over major miles of ocean , so why should they carry all that effluent with them using more energy, why don't the just dump it overboard as they travel over the endless sea.

I doubt many would favor the sh.t falling from the sky, but under the waves is ok.
 
#37 ·
Airliners and poo.... reminds me of a great local bit of sailing lore.
Back in the late 60's / early 70's a local Cascade 29 was sailing to Hawaii. They had their sextant and a pretty accurate time piece. One day they were watching a jet contrail which confirmed that they were getting closer to the islands.....
And lumps of human poo hit and stained their main sail, and etc. When they arrived they obtained the airline schedules for the date and time, figured out which airline it was and billed them for a replacement main. After some back and forth (and likely a mention of TV interviews...) they got their sail replaced.
Remember, that at 30K feet, the effluent freezes upon release and thaws as it gets closer to land or water.

Probably not funny at the time, but quite hilarious later!
:)
 
#40 ·
There are a fair number of pump out facilities, but it isn’t as convienent as to make it easy.

Many marinas has pump outs as well next to their fueling operation. Annapolis has a boat.
There are two different programs going on. Private marinas which operate profit centers charge whatever they want. The state sponsors and subsidizes pump out machines and those who use them are only allowed to charge max of $5.

Many of the nicer marinas like Zanheisers / Spring Cove in Solomon’s have in slip availability to their members or transients who stop there. It is a DYI vacuumed system.

The nice thing I see on the LI Sound is a real commitment by the cities and towns to have NDZ made possible by free pump outs and many boats to service people in the slips or while anchored. In this case I can see the banning of the Electra San devices.
 
#41 ·
My only experience with an NDZ is my time on the Great Lakes. On the lower lakes there are lots of marinas. Almost everyone one has pump out facilities, but they were all privately operated, and sometimes came at a pretty high price tag: $5-$20 if I recall.

On the upper lakes, especial Lake Superior, pump outs are few and far between. This is what pushed me to get a composter. I was always chasing the next pump out, even with my 25 gallon tank. Since I like to be gone for many weeks, to months, this was a real pita.
 
#45 ·
This problem need new technology... waste is collected in no larger than 5 gallon containers which can be brought to shore... or collected from a moored boat and disposed of... sort of like a small removable holding tank.

Pump out is kinda nutz
.
 
#48 ·
This problem need new technology... waste is collected in no larger than 5 gallon containers which can be brought to shore... or collected from a moored boat and disposed of... sort of like a small removable holding tank.
You can already accomplish this to some degree with porta potties or composting heads. Although it sounds like what you are proposing is more like a Blue Rhino kind of setup - boaters would hand off their full waste cartridges for somebody else to empty and clean in exchange for an already empty and clean cartridge they could insert on a standardized fitting in their boat. Not a bad solution but it would probably need to gain traction in the RV industry first as there's just not enough demand in the boating world to drive fast adoption of new standards. Just look at how long it has taken the SmartPlug or even NMEA 2000 to make inroads.
 
#56 ·
didn't watch the whole poop video... but the volume he claims is what one uses on a boat seems a but high to me. Having re build my Groco Model K head I know the diameter of the cylinder the the stroke length. To fill that pvc tube would take something like 100 pumps of the Groco (a guess)... so right there he is spewing poop.

But it's not the volume of water... it's the nasty bacteria in human poop which is the problem. The 3 mile rule would drop the poop pretty far from where humans would be swimming.
 
#57 · (Edited)
Hey Sander, I can only encourage you to view the entire video. We may never agree but I can assure you that you will not find anyone more caring about our marine environment than myself. We live in the Chesapeake Bay watershed on our farm in a passive solar designed home, that in addition uses geo-thermal HVAC. We also generate virtually all of our electricity. We have added substantial amount of green scape that completely offsets our carbon footprint. We have never used any chemicals for any reason on our land, no animal wastes ever find their way via runoff into our watershed, which we mostly control. It is this walking the walk and not just talking the talk that defines any actions i take regarding our nations largest estuary and my home waters. Heck just the runoff from a city like Baltimore is thousands and thousands of times more damaging than the entire recreational boating scene on the Bay. As the old saying goes "Rules are meant to be broken". I already alluded to why blindly following rules is morally bankrupt. It was the "rule" in our country at one time that no women, no persons of color, no person who did not own real property could vote. Not just the South, everywhere. Again we may never agree, but i do hope you agree that is at least those were rules that now needed to be broken! I have read your posts in the past and thus know you to be one who "gets" it and truly cares, as most folks here do. I am grateful.
 
#62 · (Edited)
Been places where they see how much is in your holding tank(s) coming in and recheck when you leave. No possibility of unnoted discharge.
Been fortunate in the US northeast. Getting out past the 3 mile limit weekly is no struggle. Although in brackish waters an innoculum of e.coli or shigella etc. can survive for quite sometime but in the high salinity Caribbean Sea discharges near the surface have limited life expectancy. I would have no issue with ndz for waste and equally important grey water in areas where study has demonstrated a true risk.
My zero footprint house is in a government park. I had all kinds of permitting restrictions as we are on a government stocked pond. Had no issues with this. Even our ground water isn’t allowed near the pond. But it made sense so spent the tens and tens of thousands to comply with a smile. However the current hodgepodge of illogical laws and patchy enforcement is joke.
 
#63 ·
One thing which confuses me is the apparent radical difference between American laws and enforcement vs pretty much the rest of the world. I'm really only judging based on the information on these forums, but the anal :)cool:) approach to poo discharge from recreational boaters seems nearly unique to the American east coast.

Why is this?

I know... high population density, including high boat density. But don't other places in the Med, or around the UK rival the east coast? From what I've read, these places take a more relaxed perspective on the whole thing, even where having some of the same laws and regulations.

Certainly this is my experience in Canada, where we have basically the same laws and regulations, but I've never, ever, even heard of any "poo police" type of enforcement. My impression is that these other places understand that cruising-level boats really aren't the problem.

So my question is, why is it almost exclusively an American east coast issue?

... Or am I completely off on my understanding/interpretations?
 
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