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post #11 of 22 Old 09-10-2016
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

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From someone who is in the 'conteplative' stage of joining PHRF racing, it would be most important to me that the fleet regularly voices that we will be accepted and encouraged, regardless of our horrible finishes. I would rather have our position on the water, and the final results reflect our actual PHRF placing. Then next year I will get a new suit of sweet carbon sails, and kick their butts!
7

Personally I would not want to have a special favorable phrf rating for around the bouy racing. When we started racing we were near the back of the pack for the first season. We worked hard and practiced every week and by year two we had moved up several places. By year three we were in the top tier of the fleet and won our first race but we had absolutely great sailors in our club (Olympic qualifiers) and that turned out to be our only win although we were near the top of the fleet for several years. One year we chose to not practice as often and we ended up back in the middle. I think you just kid yourself by changing the rules, sort of like everyone gets a metal just for showing up or no one fails in school anymore, just my opinion. Pursuit racing is always fun, never have done it on a triangle course but it's usually a good time by all.
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post #12 of 22 Old 09-10-2016
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

We used a modified PHRF club rating for several seasons at our club in an effort to get more people out. It worked pretty well for that, though having our rating reduced by about 20 sec/mile made any error on our part absolutely fatal. We still had fun finishing first and working on sailing as fast as we could. Newer boats and more interest after several seasons made the "club adjustments" unneeded, and they were dropped. We now often have more than a dozen boats out on Wednesday nights, racing in spinnaker and non-spinnaker divisions. Everyone seems to have a good time. Every club is going through a different situation and needs to do what works for them.

P.S. Pursuit starts can be fun, but can be tricky if the RC needs to be on hand to make sure nobody jumps their gun by starting a second or two (or 30) early.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-10-2016
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

As a way to get everyone more 'involved and in the thick of it', I think the Pursuit start is the simplest way to go. It gives the slow boats clear air for awhile, opportunity to attempt to cover an overtaking competitor and the chance to judge and assess close port/starboard crossings.(some things you virtually never get as the 'slow' boat unless you're being lapped )

Playing with ratings can go along with that, but for a novice to steadily improve his/her/their standing through practice and perseverance with standard ratings seems to me the better way to go.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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post #14 of 22 Old 09-11-2016
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

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Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
From someone who is in the 'conteplative' stage of joining PHRF racing, it would be most important to me that the fleet regularly voices that we will be accepted and encouraged, regardless of our horrible finishes. I would rather have our position on the water, and the final results reflect our actual PHRF placing. Then next year I will get a new suit of sweet carbon sails, and kick their butts!
That's the idea, this year Im following everyone, but I have a list of what needs to be done to remedy that. I can also tell in my placement each week when the bottom needs to be cleaned and usually that's more often than it gets done. If I could get the time back on every score that Im lagging the fleet then I (might) be less likely to work on the Boat and that doesn't help the process or the industry either. It would be nice to win sometime though. Maybe $5 or 6,000 later??
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post #15 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

I've done some racing in a dynamic PHRF system and it works pretty well. It's a low key group. For each race the winner had 9 subtracted from rating, 2nd place 6, 3rd place 3, 4th place doesn't change, and everyone after 4th gets 2 added. Benefits are that it keeps everyone in the thick of things. If you don't have the latest and greatest sails, you can still compete even if you can't sail to your rating. And perhaps most importantly you get a bonus for coming out even if you keep losing (+2 every time you race) so there's a reason to keep coming out. Probably not good for a hard core racing crowd, but it the goal is to get people out and engaged it seems to work well. And in the end, the best sailors probably still end up winning, just not by as much as they otherwise would.
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post #16 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

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If you don't have the latest and greatest sails, you can still compete even if you can't sail to your rating.
I mostly agree with you. My advise to people who ask how to be more competitive and what they should buy is always "lessons." In a qualified, competent, and competitive class you can talk me into sails, but for most club racing lessons are the best way to move up.

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post #17 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

My one comment: Golf
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post #18 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

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Originally Posted by SOSOS View Post
I've done some racing in a dynamic PHRF system and it works pretty well. It's a low key group. For each race the winner had 9 subtracted from rating, 2nd place 6, 3rd place 3, 4th place doesn't change, and everyone after 4th gets 2 added. Benefits are that it keeps everyone in the thick of things. If you don't have the latest and greatest sails, you can still compete even if you can't sail to your rating. And perhaps most importantly you get a bonus for coming out even if you keep losing (+2 every time you race) so there's a reason to keep coming out. Probably not good for a hard core racing crowd, but it the goal is to get people out and engaged it seems to work well. And in the end, the best sailors probably still end up winning, just not by as much as they otherwise would.
Welcome aboard SOS let us know how you do when the season starts back up. We have High Hopes on the "Special K"II lots of new equipment this year.
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post #19 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

One Design is pretty straight forward...what can YOU do with?
Small is good for this.

The best way to get more people involved is to keep the entry cost low.....the boat, costly sails, etc. When you get away from that...low volume...

To give me 'positive points' because I was not as good and skilled as another skipper/crew that beat me sounds absurd.
It's real competition...or its not.
Some people like to play in that arena, and some not....the truth.
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post #20 of 22 Old 02-19-2017
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Re: A dynamic PHRF system?

PHRF can work well, but we have found that local sailing politics overpowers it, around here, for decades.
To have better competition with less hassle, a local club was formed here in 1978 around the idea of one design (OD) racing. At that time three local fleets came together to incorporate the club. These were all 20 to 22 foot ballasted boats. It was really excellent racing. Since it was mostly all families, the social factor was huge too.
The club kept attracting new members who inevitably sailed larger boats with not enough to put 5 on a starting line.
Soon they added Level Fleets, where a group of boats was assigned by general performance potential... using known PHRF numbers and local knowledge. This flourished and that club is still going strong with about a hundred boats.
Given that on short course racing any tiny mistake you make at a mark will undo a considerable difference in rating numbers (!), this has provided fair racing. At least as "fair" as most all handicap racing ever is.
Best of all, you sail your boat as well as you can, and all the finishes are "WYSIWYG". When you get the horn you know exactly what you finish position is.

Regards,
Loren
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