Non Racing Sailors - Page 6 - SailNet Community
 73Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #51 of 87 Old 04-10-2019
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,535
Thanks: 95
Thanked 200 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Why does anyone do the best they can do at anything? Competition brings that out. You see it all the time in all sports . Competition forces people to achieve more than they could without it. Racing increases skills in sail trim.
It makes you read the minute wind changes , it develops teamwork as all team sports do.

My daughter and I raced Hobie 16 for a few years and were fortunate enough to be ranked in the top 5 in New Jersey. It built a forever bond between us. It taught both of us to push ourselves past points we were compfortable in which later transferred in to professional life. Racing was not a comfortable day cruising, but a day to intensely look at the sport we choose. My daughter has thanked me and me her for the valuable lessons we learned in how it applied to the larger keel boats we eventually bought.

I raced a number of years Wednesday nights in Annapolis with a great boat as part of it's crew. It was fun, got to share in some great comaradierie when some people got too serious about it I quit .

Racing helped complete the sailor I am. Complete let's different skill set than cruising. It made me a more well rounded sailor. It tonight me how to handle a boat in close quarters and not shy away from it or be afraid of it. It taught me etiquette rules in clLose quarters. There is nothing better strategy wise than the last 5 minutes before match racing and truly understanding all the factors leading up to starting a race with an advantage Over your opponents.

Racing is not for everyone. No value judgement there. Some don't want competition to interfere with how their perception of sailing/ cruising is. Some fear the close quarters. Some can,t stand to lose. Some just don't enjoy competition.

My wife is some of the above. Once in a while I push my 1983 racer cruiser Haleakula. A C+C 35 MKIII like Barry races on. On the Great Lakes it had a 1 class racing division a at one time where they were built. My wife ones not really like seeing the old gal get to 9 + to 10 + knotts. Humming along pushed close to her limits. She usually tucks under the dodger a nervously watches till it ends. She doesn't like the close quarters sailing , especially when we come up on a boat from behind, sail close Hauled and sail inside another boat on the same basic course, blocking their wind has we squeeze by. Haleakula points extremely well.

My competitive racing days are over, but once in a while it sneaks a peak in the past when opportunity presents in TT self.
BarryL, JimsCAL, SanderO and 2 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 04-10-2019 at 10:59 PM.
chef2sail is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #52 of 87 Old 04-10-2019
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 10,535
Thanks: 95
Thanked 200 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
You don't have to race to become a better sailor. Try turning your engine off for the day, come what may.
One season down here, before we began chartering, we sailed nearly 2500 miles (all interisland day sails, no ocean crossings) and we ran the engine less than 20 hours for the whole year. One day we sailed from Young Island to Rodney Bay in one shot (windward side of St Vincent, leeward side of St Lucia), 79.3 miles in winds less than 18 knots: 12:22 (nice current).
Or sail your home grounds w/o turning on your engine, at all. Sail off the anchor, and to wherever you choose to go and sail onto the anchor again. Sailing the lees down here, with just you and your sailing partner (not a crew of avid sailors), actually sailing when all others are powering is an amazing feeling. Now there's a challenge that sharpens your sailing skills.
Then, when the engine does fail, you'll not be so quick to call a tow, but sail your boat to safety on your own. That beats any amount of trophies on the mantle.
Clearly you are right , you don't have to race to learn the skill. Clearly you are wrong some of us have learned the skills from racing.

We all use our boats and sail for different reasons. For some it's their home like yours. Or some it's a business Enterprise to make moneyy....like yours.

No value judgement to your choices but they are not and never would be mine.

My sailing is my therapy. Making my therapy into a business to make money would take away from that. I don't want to be confined to a boat even though I love them. I have far to many other interests like museums, mountains, to forgo them to live on a boat. I also like my home , my friends. I like to jump on a plane at. whim and go somewhere to experience other places. Our/ my sailing is good for our marriage, as we are together and our variety of our other interests compliments that. It gives us balance in our life.

So we use our boats differently. Neither is superior to the other, it's just a matter of our personal choices. Neither choice I the "best" way to sail or LL earn to sail, or makes anyone a suprior sailor or authority on it. You do what fits you and makes you happy. That leaves room for the racers too.
SanderO, capta and bshock like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is online now  
post #53 of 87 Old 04-11-2019
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,271
Thanks: 1
Thanked 46 Times in 44 Posts
Rep Power: 16
   
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Some of us also know, if we do not force ourselves to a degree, to go out on those weekly, every other week events, the boat will not be used as much! Nor might we try to force ourselves to sail in those under 5 knots, or over 20-25 knot days like a race I did last saturday. Not every day is sunny, 60-80F or what ever is a nice day/evening in your mind. SOmetimes racing is like last weekend, where 1/3 of the fleet did not start, 1/3 did not finish, 1/3 of us finished. 5 of 17 classes had one official finisher out of 4 starters, out of 7 that were in that division, me for example. I was the finisher. I would not call it an easy win per say. But we knew what we needed to do to finish and survive per say the day!
SOme days we finish last, some first, some in between. Like snow skiing that I have taught for 35 years, done for 40+, the worst day sailing/skiing is better than best day at work! What ever gets me on the water, be it liquid or solid, is a good day!

Marty
SanderO and bshock like this.

She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
blt2ski is online now  
 
post #54 of 87 Old 04-11-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,790
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Great responses here. I was interested in hearing from the non racing sailors... but the ones who do both racing and cruising or day sailing explained their reasons for racing. Actually this is one of the interesting things about sailing... that it can be fulfilling for various ways of being on the water. No one will deny that competition *anything* makes you better at that genre... in terms of performance. Absolutely nothing wrong with stepping up your skill set.

Of course for the non racing sailor dismissing the notion that they too are looking to improve performance is denying the credit that is deserved. Aside from super lazy or dumb sailors... and there are very few of these because they don't go well with owning a boat every sailor going somewhere wants to get there a quickly (and enjoyably) as they can. And no matter how fast they go... it's a very slow way to get an anyplace that offers road or air alternatives. If we, for example, want to visit the Mansions in Newport, we can drive in comfort and get there in 3-4 hrs. Sailing takes say 25 hrs (guess). But getting there in the boat is much more pleasurable than driving... and more fun... and comes with a sense of accomplishment that driving on roads doesn't provide. Perhaps if I had a racing background I could cut the 25hrs down to 23 or 24... But why? Perhaps getting early enough to find a better spot to anchor or avoid an evening landfall? Whenever we are on a tack for a while and the conditions are reasonably stable... I will fiddle with my trim/control lines to get the boat going as fast as I can... and I can tell because of the sensitive instruments. I could get there with just a compass.. maybe not even that.... and charts, binocs... as it's mostly eyeball navigation. But without my instruments I would likely not be able to know how well my sailing tweaks are doing. I think all sailors will try to optimize. Not to compete... with others... but perhaps with themselves to get their boat sailing well.

I am concerned about sailing in close quarters with other boats... and mostly because there seem to be way too many who do not observer the COLREGs or don't care to. Way too many are not watching and unpredictable and that applies to operators of big expensive boats... power and sail. I suppose many racers will evolve to cruisers or day sailors because it's less stressful???? But everyone seems to want to go faster believing they can if only if only.
chef2sail and Minnesail like this.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #55 of 87 Old 04-11-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,299
Thanks: 82
Thanked 576 Times in 552 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
..... But everyone seems to want to go faster believing they can if only if only.
Good post and I agree with it. Whether we want a schedule or not, they are forced upon us, due to weather, filling anchorages, time off, distance to destinations, nightfall, whatever. Faster can be better and some argue safer.

It is clearly a matter of relativity. One is trying to get the most out of what their boat will do, not necessary be faster than another boat. My boat is considered pretty fast by most of us. Non-sailors consider it pretty slow, even at hull speed. I'm occasionally asked why I don't just get a stinkpot for speed and I remind them they aren't all that fast either. Most are no faster than a good bicycle. If you need to get somewhere quickly, take a car or plane. The water is slow.

I'm also reminded of some of my most enjoyable sails in the Bay, when winds are so light, I can barely get the sails to fill. I don't want to motor 25 miles, so we stay close. So light, I reef, only because the weight of the cloth and sheets are too heavy. It's also a great sense of accomplishment to just make the boat move at all, taking hours to travel just a few miles to a local anchorage and go ashore for lunch. There is nothing fast about it. A counter current would stop you in your tracks. It's peaceful, zero stress, no need to trim much. It's what many landlubbers probably think of, when they think of sailing. Not like our offshore waves crashing, spray in your face and wind noise that rivals the decibels of a stinkpot.
SanderO likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #56 of 87 Old 04-11-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,790
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Non Racing Sailors

I would add.... it's not getting THERE but how and the joy of GETTING there. Some people feel a thrill from using just the wind... and a vessel that has roots in ancient times. Same propulsion but with science and technology applied. And for the most part you get some place without spewing smelly pollutants into the environment. It's like free energy! Being on the water seems to have a therapeutic impact on feeling of well being and health. How cool is that!

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #57 of 87 Old 04-11-2019
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,290
Thanks: 6
Thanked 116 Times in 111 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Hello All,

I am really enjoying this thread. Big thanks to SanderO for starting it. So many different perspectives, well written thoughts, and no attacks.

Just a few more points.
I've been an athlete my entire life. I played soccer, ice hockey, lacrosse, etc. As I got older, the opportunity to play team sports decreases. The opportunity to complete at a high level is really small. In sailboat racing a bunch of old guys on an old boat can still be competitive. In 2018, RJMS (the C+C 35 boat I race on) competed in the Off Soundings Spring series, Around Long Island Regatta, Off Soundings Fall series, Whitebread, Vineyard, and Greenport Ocean Race.

Our results:
Off Soundings Spring: 4th out of 15
Around Long Island Regatta: 2nd in class (of 10 boats), 3rd overall in spinnaker out of 33
Vineyard race: retired - broken mainsheet, terrible conditions (I was not on the boat)
Off Soundings Fall: Race 1: 1st out of 15, race 2: 5th out of 13
Whitebread: 2nd out of 12
Greenport Ocean Race: 5th out of 15 (I was not on the boat)

Pretty good performance for a bunch of amateurs on an 1988 boat.

Lastly, the 'big' regattas listed above have real big parties after the race!

Barry
Attached Thumbnails
ALIR18-2.JPG   OffSoundingsFall1.JPG   18-12_6721.jpg   Whitebread18-3.JPG  
SanderO and bshock like this.

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by BarryL; 04-11-2019 at 04:20 PM.
BarryL is online now  
post #58 of 87 Old 04-11-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 3,790
Thanks: 2
Thanked 95 Times in 95 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Non Racing Sailors

Barry,
Impressive! As a cruiser the distance races you mentioned do have some appeal to me. I did do the Marion Bermuda back in 91 mostly to prep me and the boat for the coming 4 years of doing the Caribbean and annual passages between LIS and the Caribe. The racing was not much interest to me... but of course we did try to do the best we could. We were rated in the exact middle of the entire fleet and finished exactly in the middle. It was a very tough passage... in fact the worst conditions I have ever sailed thru/in. No gear failures but crew were all sea sick! YIKES! That was the first and all subsequent passages were nothing compared to it.

I am not all that thrilled to "go out for the day" of sailing. As I don't live close to the boat... once I get there I am pretty much on the boat for the weekend or longer. So... I might as well sail somewhere. These days I am less and less inclined to sail when conditions aren't cooperative. I don't need to maintain hull speed... but sailing under 3 knots and suffering stink pot wakes is not my idea of fun. And no wind is clearly something races can face.

The races you mentioned seem manageable time wise so I might add that to my bucket list. Thanks for that!

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #59 of 87 Old 04-11-2019
Captain Obvious
 
Sal Paradise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,194
Thanks: 25
Thanked 89 Times in 88 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Non Racing Sailors

I rented a J24 last summer while on a weeks vacation in Newport. Of course I waited until it was blowing 20+ knots so I would get my money's worth. Just me and my 22 year old son. We came out from Sail Newport right into the Candy Store Cup. Wow!! I was a couple hundred yards off the buoy when these big boats came around seemingly inches apart. What a thrill. , I appreciated the guts and glory of that sport. The adrenaline of that afternoon stayed with us into the evening.
SanderO and chef2sail like this.

Sal Paradise - Armchair Circumnavigator

Senior Researcher - Dunning Kruger

Last edited by Sal Paradise; 04-11-2019 at 11:47 AM.
Sal Paradise is offline  
post #60 of 87 Old 04-11-2019
Sailnet Vendor
 
jblumhorst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay area and West Coast by trailer
Posts: 167
Thanks: 23
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Dock
Re: Non Racing Sailors

My family skied from the time the youngest could walk. I never raced, never wanted to. My brother and I grew up with skis on our legs. We had fun swooping down mountains in all conditions. Skiing is dancing with gravity to me

I dance ballroom and other styles. Never competed. I dance for the pure joy of it.

I have sailed since I was eight. Sailing is dancing with wind and water to me.

I sail to be outdoors and to simply be. It’s a moving meditation.
Minnesail likes this.

Judy B
San Francisco Bay and Delta
F24 Trimaran
jblumhorst is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non-Marina/Non-Crusing Liveaboard? HappyPappy Living Aboard 22 07-20-2010 12:44 PM
Re: Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 06-27-2007 12:15 PM
Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing / Wed. Racing NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 06-19-2007 10:15 PM
Re: Connecting Sailors to Sailboats / or Sailors to Sailors NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-25-2007 01:15 AM
Connecting Sailors to Sailboats / or Sailors to Sailors NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-25-2007 01:15 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome