Steel vs Fiberglass - Page 174 - SailNet Community
 1137Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1731 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 17,467
Thanks: 226
Thanked 227 Times in 216 Posts
Rep Power: 0
     
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
...and the later free range, wild turkeys, who's brains get used, and develop to their full potential .
No wonder the former have no comprehension of the latter.

That explains a lot of these debates, and why the former are incapable of comprehension.
Okay, now your ideas and attitude are starting to make much more sense...


Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-18-2015 at 07:18 PM.
smackdaddy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1732 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 3,112
Thanks: 20
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It seems you don't know what is a MKII: means an older design (hull) that had a remake. The remake is more on the interior than anything else and no, they are not contemporary designs, I mean the 48MKII and the 43MKII.

The 412 is a different matter and a much more modern boat. H&R is not probably a brand that makes really up to date boats, their clients are more conservative and they make conservative sailboats but even so on the last years the changes are huge in what regards more modern designs and the differences between the hulls of the 43 or 48 and the 412 are a clear sinthome of that. Big difference also in what regards keels and rudders:








As you can see there is a clear increase in beam as well as the beam on the 412 is pulled back. You can also see that the 412 has a true spade rudder while the 43 has not and also that the keel is more narrow and the bulb bigger.

In fact your example is a good example of the differences in design between two boats of consecutive generation on the same conservative shipyard, designed by the same NA, and a good one. German Frers. Yes, I would say that even if conservative the 412 is a contemporary design.
Lean bows and wide sterns make for poor directional stability. Twin rudders can offset this, and let you control it somewhat, but it will still fight to go off course.
The first has a far tougher, more practical, and efficient rudder.
Brent Swain is offline  
post #1733 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 3,112
Thanks: 20
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Well for sure there is at least one uncomprehending turkey on this thread.
As I have pointed out ,there are many, the captive ones, in the marinas, and on the treadmill.
Brent Swain is offline  
 
post #1734 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
PCP
Senior Member
 
PCP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,466
Thanks: 21
Thanked 114 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Lean bows and wide sterns make for poor directional stability. Twin rudders can offset this, and let you control it somewhat, but it will still fight to go off course.
You have said that again and again. Reality shows that is not true. the 412 has a beam (4.11m) comparable of most mass production sailboats and all of them have the beam pulled back having large transoms. Some have two rudders, the HR has only one and certainly it does not fight to go off course.

Here you have a test performed by a conservative sailor from a conservative sailing magazine. You can see that the boat sails very well:





bobperry likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PCP is offline  
post #1735 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,893
Thanks: 4
Thanked 185 Times in 173 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

"Lean bows and wide sterns make for poor directional stability. Twin rudders can offset this, and let you control it somewhat, but it will still fight to go off course".

Pure BS from BS. He simply is spouting silly generalizations. He knows nothing about the subject. PCP knows this. I have two boats with very fine entries and very broad sterns. Both have great directional stability.
More words from a guy that only has words to show. When did you last sail a boat with twin rudders BS? What boat was that?

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #1736 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 3,112
Thanks: 20
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by slap View Post
You have no idea of how much of that fairness is filler, which has to be constantly pampered, defeating one of the main advantages of steel . Wherever steel comes in contact with wood, outside, it is a constant maintenance nightmare. Not likely to impress anyone who has maintained a steel boat long term ,only armchair experts , who have never owned a steel boat.
She is a prime example of naive, armchair expert priorities.
Brent Swain is offline  
post #1737 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,893
Thanks: 4
Thanked 185 Times in 173 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Doesn't matter BS. This boat is a thing of beauty. You can show nothing that even comes remotely close to this. In your widest dreams you can't do this with any material. You don't have the eye. You have the mouth though.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
post #1738 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
still boatless
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 185
Thanks: 7
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

Materials for hull and decks
A steel 36 footer. $10,000

Pulling together a completely fair steel hull , with no mold . Two days.

Detailing . 150 hours of welding down and fabricating fittings, some from your hull scraps. Welding them down ,which cost pennies and take minutes to weld down, which have zero chance of ever pulling loose or leaking.
But those numbers do not appear to match the experience of your own customers on your own Yahoo group.

Even if we spot you your definition of "completely fair," could any individual come forward with documented proof that they were able to fold up a steel hull in two days for ten grand? If one of your customers could post here that they had the experience you describe in this post, then you have a valid argument.

I for one would be impressed, and surprised, if so.
slap and smackdaddy like this.
WharfRat is offline  
post #1739 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 3,112
Thanks: 20
Thanked 48 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Me too - it's not my "favourite" of your designs but it's the one I'd choose for around here (given major custom boat bucks). When I saw Frankie's interior layout I was reminded of Amati - I guess similar requirements and similar levels of experience result in similar solutions.
Frankie looks like a 60 footer with the interior space of a 30 footer.
None to bright, or intelligent.
Brent Swain is offline  
post #1740 of 2951 Old 10-18-2015
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,893
Thanks: 4
Thanked 185 Times in 173 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

BS is not overly concerned with truth Wharfy. He makes things up as he goes along to suit his argument du jour. That's why I call him BS.

Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Bob's Blog ....

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Please also visit my new web site
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bobperry is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Steel vs Fiberglass me262 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 24 08-28-2015 09:11 AM
Steel or fiberglass hull bjslife Living Aboard 10 11-09-2009 10:59 AM
Hull materials,..steel verses fiberglass,composite,wood timetasell General Discussion (sailing related) 7 03-24-2006 09:37 PM
Steel or Fiberglass Mark Matthews Buying a Boat Articles 0 10-21-2000 09:00 PM
Steel or Fiberglass Mark Matthews Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-21-2000 09:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome