Steel vs Fiberglass - Page 72 - SailNet Community
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post #711 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Well, I just caught a 15 lb salmon off the beach on 6 lb. test line. Took a half hour to land him. I'm bushed. He was bushed. I got the hook out and he just laid there at my feet. I let him go. I had my fun.

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post #712 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

You ever get to NE you need to catch a keeper striper on the fly Bob. Too much fun

Wonder if there's a reason to basically strip plank a steel boat on the diagonal ? Is it done to avoid complex curves?
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post #713 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Out:
I would think some "spiling" of the plates would be required but maybe not as much as longitudinal plating. You even see this with carbon fiber as the sheathing moves forward they tend to want to twist into a diagonal orientation. Maybe Brent has some experience with this style of plating. Of course I imagine it has to involve frames so maybe BS would not be familiar with it.

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Last edited by bobperry; 07-25-2015 at 08:00 PM.
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post #714 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Wonder if there's a reason to basically strip plank a steel boat on the diagonal ? Is it done to avoid complex curves?[/QUOTE]
Strip planking a steel boat on the diagonal is a hair brained idea, the kind you get from a designer who has never got his hands dirty working with steel..
A friend did it and it took a huge amount of work and a huge amount of filler, to get her fair.
If you are that determined to get a round bilge, an origami hull with the chines radiused would be far more practical ,and far fairer in the bare steel stage.
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post #715 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post

By the way most of us inexperienced cruisers use snubbers, sufficient chain rode and next gen anchors. So far so good with no loads on the bow roller or windlass. Even in storms.

Brent it would be informative to compare Fe to Al from your perspective. Now with Al prices for cad/cam developed components reasonable and a good after market it seems this is a potential area for growth. Good TIG techniques are teachable. Perhaps DIY builders in Al may increase.
So your anchor is caught under a rock ,without your knowledge, in a swell,and the rode is vertical. How do you stop the snubbing with a snubber in that situation, and still get your anchor back aboard. None of the stock boats with busted bow rollers in PV had any solutions other than a stronger bow roller.
In the 80s, a friend built one of my 36 footers in aluminium. Steel for the shell was around $6K then aluminium 20K . Steel for a 36 is around $9K now. Cost of welding equipment and supplies for aluminium is also far more expensive than steel and takes far more skill, precision and ideal working conditions than steel. Aluminium must be super dry, and clean, and can only be welded in a flat calm on a dry day. Steel can be welded outside in a rain or snow storm. It is far easier to screw up an aluminium weld than with steel. That is a huge deterrent to backyard builders using aluminium. It is also much harder to find a good antifouling for aluminium and a problem with electrolysis on aluminium results in much faster corrosion.
In the last ten years I have built as many boats as I wanted to build.It's still a hell of a workout climbing around in a hull. Last one( last fall)I supervised youngsters from flat ground , much easier.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-25-2015 at 08:32 PM.
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post #716 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

To begin with, if you care to read the original post, the boat was most probably both home designed and home built. Second, it was not "strip planked". Whatever would give you that idea? Reading comprehension issues again? Third, I'm sure Out was not at all interested in building either an alu or steel boat. Out is extremely happy with his great grp boat. He was simply asking if this style of construction had been seen by others and what if any were the benefits. It pays to be able to read.

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post #717 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Brent
Have four friends who own valiants. A live aboard couple from the cheasepeake with likely over 100,000m on their boat. A retired Union plumber with multiple rough passages including a hurricane. Hit land and rode out the tail at anchor. A retired couple who snowbirded to the eastern carribean over a dozen times. A gentleman who has done both coasts ( and caribe) of the U.S.
These boats have seen multiple storms, anchored thousands of times including bad weather. At times ridden hard and put away wet.
These boats looks brand spanking new.
Like you most everyone on this thread can quote stories to document your attacks of Bob is bogus and unsubstantiated in fact or history.
The ultimate test of strength is not how they ride out a hurricane at anchor, but how they fair when the anchor drags, and they end up aground in a storm. I have read about how they survive a storm in an anchorage, leading anchor rodes to as many cleats as possible because no one is strong enough by itself. My mooring bitts are good for 90 tons sheer strength. Valiants do have good chocks ,built into the bulwarks, stronger than most anchor rodes. Lowering the bow roller into the bulwarks would be a huge improvement . However, most stock plastic boats don't, including Bobs later designs.
They put storm boards over the windows to protect them. A good window needs no storm boards, and are strong enough by themselves. They do the same with hatches . A proper hatch needs no such reinforcing.
In Don Shores book "Viski Around the World" he mentions hitting the reef leaving Suva , in his 36 ft Brentboat, and pounding across 300 yards of coral reef, then being pulled back over it in big surf, by a tug, with no serious damage. A Valiant would have broken up in minutes on hitting the reef. What on a Valiant would you loop a hawser from a tug over? A valiant would have no chance being dragged over a reef in big surf. Do you have any examples of a Valiant surviving big surf on a coral reef?
peter Kinsey hit a Fijian coral reef in his steel Laurent Giles design 50 footer Tavake.No harm done, amid the litter of stock plastic boats surrounding him. in pieces.

There are none!
Yes, as stock plastic boast go,a Valiant is one of the better ones, but nowhere near as good , in practical terms , as a steel origami boat, in terms of proven toughness. Yes, they can be improved, in the points I have made ,but nothing will make them as reliable as my boats.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 07-29-2015 at 06:21 PM.
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post #718 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
Yes, as stock plastic boast go,a Valiant is one of the better ones, but nowhere near as good , in practical terms , as a steel origami boat, in terms of proven toughness. Yes, they can be improved, in the points I have made ,but nothing will make them as reliable as my boats.
Valiant:





BS:





Even "practically speaking".
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post #719 of 2951 Old 07-25-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
The ultimate test of strength is not how they ride out a hurricane at anchor, but how they fair when the anchor drag, and they end up aground in a storm. I have read about how they survive a storm in an anchorage, leading anchor rodes to as many cleats as possible because no one is strong enough by itself. My mooring bitts are good for 90 tons sheer strength. Valiants do have good chocks ,built into the bulwarks, stronger than most anchor rodes. Lowering the bow roller into the bulwarks would be a huge improvement . However, most stock plastic boats don't, including Bobs later designs.
They put storm boards over the windows to protect them. A good window needs no storm boards, and are strong enough by themselves. They do the same with hatches . A proper hatch needs no such reinforcing.
In Don Shores book "Viski Around the World" he mentions hitting the reef leaving Suva , in his 36 ft Brentboat, and pounding across 300 yards of coral reef, then being pulled back over it in big surf, by a tug, with no serious damage. A Valiant would have broken up in minutes on hitting the reef. What on a Valiant would you loop a hawser from a tug over? A valiant would have no chance being dragged over a reef in big surf. Do you have any examples of a Valiant surviving big surf on a coral reef?
peter Kinsey hit a Fijian coral reef in his steel Laurent Giles design 50 footer Tavake.No harm done, amid the litter of stock plastic boats surrounding him. in pieces.

There are none!
Yes, as stock plastic boast go,a Valiant is one of the better ones, but nowhere near as good , in practical terms , as a steel origami boat, in terms of proven toughness. Yes, they can be improved, in the points I have made ,but nothing will make them as reliable as my boats.
I met Don in Nanaimo a couple of years ago. He did love his boat. I'm curious about the rustproofing on a steel hull after it's hit it's fifth or sixth reef/shipping crate/deadhead. Does the bottom paint being stripped off facilitate fast oxidization and do you have to repaint it ASAP?

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post #720 of 2951 Old 07-26-2015
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Bob, nice picture of the Valient. (I really want to be bad and say somthing about the flimsy bow roller, but that would be soooo bad - see the P.S.). I have to admit that it is one of my all-time favorite boats. There's one in the harbor here that is such a beauty.

Did you design the Islander 32?? I owned one of them, and it was a lovely boat.

P.S. Just mess'n wid ya

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