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post #1051 of 1164 Old 08-29-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

34:
I am with you on that. Chart tables serve multiple purposes. With company on board for dinner I can cook, serve and eat at the chart table without disturbing anyone at the drop leaf table.

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post #1052 of 1164 Old 08-29-2017
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Bob,

I look forward to seeing what you come up with as this progresses. I have to say that I keep looking at this drawing and thinking that visually this seems like a very tough design problem, particularly with regards to the mass of the forward cabin. Maybe this is just my eye, but the house over the galley visually appears to be very far forward, and so that the forward face visually appears to my eye to be a little too close to the base of the mast. It may also be an issue with the prominent scale of the house relative to the sleek hull and proportions of the rig design (both of which I really like).

Looking at the arrangement plan, I see why the forward cabin house where it is. I can't imagine moving the mast any further forward. (It already is a multiple headsail sloop rather than a cutter by the traditioanl definitions), and yet, proportions wise, given its size and prominence, the house would seem to want to be further aft or the mast further forward or some mix of both. (This might be an easier problem if this were a fractional rig or a ketch or schooner).

I was looking at the cabins on that you designed for the Islander Freeport 41 where you had a similar set of proximics and made that work elegantly, so I am sure that you will come up with something that knocks our socks off.

Jeff


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post #1053 of 1164 Old 08-30-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

I think I have already Jeff.

Correct: You can't just slide a pilot house back and forth over a given layout. As you well know it's all integral. I drew the layout I was after and then I put a cabin trunk and PH on it. If you need some historical reference for this look go to Bill Garden's DISCOVERY and DECISION two boats I loved as a kid and still do. Both with very forward PH's and cuddy style aft cabins.

I really like the look of taking all the bulk out of the stern.

I'm toying with the idea of taking that Baba 40 PH layout I stuck on the 42' carbon cutter and seeing what I can do with that at 52'. Might be fun.
This at 52' LOA:
BP PH Interior
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post #1054 of 1164 Old 08-30-2017
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
I'm toying with the idea of taking that Baba 40 PH layout I stuck on the 42' carbon cutter and seeing what I can do with that at 52'. Might be fun.
This at 52' LOA:
BP PH Interior
I like that idea of having a stronger line of the forward trunk cabin passing through below the doghouse, and shorter height windows on the doghouse above.

Jeff


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post #1055 of 1164 Old 08-30-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

BTW:
Tomorrow, Thursday at 10am we are rolling the first of the carbon cutters out of the barn so we can step the mast. It will be my first chance to see the finished boat away from the confines of the shed.
If you are in ANACORTES tomorrow morning feel free to stop by the Betts yard, 502 34th st. and enjoy the fun.

Jeff:
Me too but sometimes the windows should go lower. I'm thinking about this and in time mI'll take a shot at it. I'd start with carrying the forward trunk edge line aft. Kind of works to break up the potentially overwhelming bulk of the PH. I'd probably give the PH sides a bit more rake than the lower trunk also.


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post #1056 of 1164 Old 08-30-2017
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Ever since I saw Bob's design for the the 52 foot cutter I had been thinking that it had a fabulous hull, low slung and powerful in profile. But I began thinking about what I would do with the design. I actually loaded the JPEG of the cutter into my drafting program and was playing around with the main cabin profile for the heck of it. It was kind of like when I was a kid and I would see some design by Rhodes or Alden that would capture my imagination and I would grid off a magazine image, redraft it, playing with this or that.

I dropped Bob an email with my sketched over design for critique and Bob was kind enough to consider what I had sent him and comment on it. He also suggested that I post it so here it is.

Bob Perry's 52 foot cutter sketch_001

Here is my thinking that led to the sketch: As Bob had drawn the cutter, the hull struck me as having a strong horizontality that is both sleek and powerful at the same time. It felt like the cabin trunks and doghouse wanted to read as more sympathetically horizontal. It seemed like it would be helpful to visually move the doghouse aft a little. I say visually because there were physical constrains within the layout that placed the doghouse where it was. I also thought that it would be useful to get a venting ports above the galley, dinette and bunk rooms.

The changes that I am trying to represent in my sketch were meant to create a more prominent beltline by raising the top of the forward trunk cabin so that it was more visible aft of the mast and so it merges with the vertical height of the cockpit coaming continuing that horizontal line past the doghouse.

To further emphasize that I pulled the sides of the doghouse in a little so that the tight radius where the trunk meets the cabin top of the forward trunk cabin runs below the doghouse, and I added a drip rail that could then merge with the coaming cap. I also increased the crown of the doghouse coach roof.

In combination this decreased the vertical dimension of the doghouse fixed portlights making them read more horizontal. This then allowed me to insert operable ports in the trunk cabin side above the galley, dinette and bunk rooms. To visually move the doghouse aft and to make it appear more traditional (as well as to add shelter at the forward end of the cockpit), I extended the aft edge of the doghouse coach roof out over the ends of the cockpit seats. I also slightly more steeply raked the leading edge of the doghouse.

I thought a little about what I might do if this were a design for me instead of Bob's client, and so thought about messing with the rig a little; maybe adding more height and rake to the mast, extending the length of the boom to make the mainsail more powerful for reaching, perhaps shifting the mast forward slightly and greatly increasing the hoist of the staysail. In other words, given my preference for fractional rigs, moving to a fractional rig with a masthead reacher on a topdown furler from the end of the sprit. I did not draft that change because as as I thought about those kinds of rig changes, it occurred to me that I am not the client here and Bob's client wants a cutter rig.

But it was a nice day dream,

Jeff
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Now my 52'er excersize is a collaboration. That's fun.

While I dont' go along with all of Jeff's suggestions, a matter of taste in most cases, he did come up with a brilliant idea of adding some overhang on the back of the PH top. I do have the height there for sitting headroom. It's a perfect spot to hunker down out of the wind and rain. I added 28" of overhang. It makes for an awkwardly long companionway hatch but we can overcome what with carbon fiber. I also think the extra length it adds to the PH gives the boat a more conventional aesthetic balance.

I hope Jeff will turn this link into an image for me. Thanks Jeff.
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Check out this subtle change:
Don M. Bruce
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post #1059 of 1164 Old 09-01-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Went to the yard yesterday to se hull no. 1 come out into the sunshine. It was nice to be able to get away from the boat without the confines of the shed. All went well. I'll post a few of my many photos as links and hopefully Jeff will find some time to turn them into images.

The protective wrapping is now off the interior.

As usual I'll do my best to answer any questions.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156602...posted-public/

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post #1060 of 1164 Old 09-01-2017
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Re: Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters

Holy crap. That's stunning.
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