I was told that for safety offshore you need 45 - Page 8 - SailNet Community
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post #71 of 139 Old 02-13-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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I got a Milwaukee with a winch bit to raise my 440sf main. WOW what difference. In the past I could raise it from the mast 50% of the hoist or more.... and then would you a genny winch which allowed more leverage. I was exhausted when it was up. I am getting older and I don't do the sort of exercise the maintain upper body strength. Trimming the smallish genny (fractional rig) is not a problem for me.

But Millie is a dog send... I love Millie and use her to do all sorts of lifting:

raise the alum dink from water to fore deck...

raise heavy stored sails from the cockpit lockers

send someone aloft

and in the not too distance future get new batteries from dock to deck.

It's a spendy device... but aside from the above... it's a heavy duty right angle drill.
Yes, I have a friend who just got the same and, like you, absolutely loves it. I never say never, but at this point itís just not needed on our boat.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
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post #72 of 139 Old 02-14-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Originally Posted by sailforlife View Post
That says something for sure, if the insurance company won't insure you. Thank you for that good reply.

or maybe they lost too much money in Florida and Texas, so they need to make it up on the backs of the guys with bigger boats who have deeper pockets. Maybe try a different insurance company. After you sign up with the new insurance company, read up on Lin and Larry Pardey, Hal Roth, and Robin Knox-Johnston, among others.

Last edited by paulk; 02-14-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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post #73 of 139 Old 02-15-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

The Pharoah, the Titanic, the Edmond Fitzergerald, the USS Annapolis, the K-19...all proof that even 100 feet is not enough to buy you safety at sea.

Tell all those "45 feet" people they are woefully ignorant, it is nowhere near enough.
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post #74 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Yes, I'll take my neighbor's Cabo Rico 38 offshore over another neighbors Hunter 45 any day of the week.

But the averages remain.
Curious then if that is one insurance company policy, but others vary as well. It could also be because there isn't enough money in a smaller boat policy.
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post #75 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Curious then if that is one insurance company policy, but others vary as well. It could also be because there isn't enough money in a smaller boat policy.
I bet this is the case as well.

Itís kinda like how liability-only insurance is so hard to get. Itís always part of any comprehensive insurance plan, so you can see that itís is quite cheap. Therefore, we can conclude the risk is very small.

But trying to find a broker who will arrange the sale for this is difficult. Why? I suspect itís b/c thereís little money in it for anyone in the financial food chain. Most insurance/broker businesses would rather work for big bucks than big pennies.

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post #76 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Yes, I have a friend who just got the same and, like you, absolutely loves it. I never say never, but at this point itís just not needed on our boat.
I don't want to derail this thread.

Things like power assisted winch... an electric windlass... roller furling ... AP are things which not only make sailing easier... and sure you don't NEED them....

But they make sailing anywhere... coastal or offshore safer...

Who can say that reserving your strength is not mission critical to your safety?

Millie is one of the best things I have added to Shiva... bar none.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
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post #77 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Curious then if that is one insurance company policy, but others vary as well. It could also be because there isn't enough money in a smaller boat policy.
I don't know what other insurance companies do. other than my policy. I don't follow the logic of the insurance company only making profit on larger vessels. It's just math. They're good at it and if risk is proportional, the premium can be proportional. It's a very price competitive business and volume is how they achieve statistical loss expectations. If you were right about only wanting the larger premium and risk, why would they insure any boat below 40ft at all? Most boats sink or suffer most losses at their slip.


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post #78 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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I don't want to derail this thread.

Things like power assisted winch... an electric windlass... roller furling ... AP are things which not only make sailing easier... and sure you don't NEED them....

But they make sailing anywhere... coastal or offshore safer...

Who can say that reserving your strength is not mission critical to your safety?

Millie is one of the best things I have added to Shiva... bar none.
WellÖ we could get into a discussion about equipment and safety. I personally would be concerned about becoming dependent on too many electrical gadgets, and what happens when they die. And as far as reserving your strength; perhaps Ö but if you donít use it, you lose it.

Thereís no doubt that as systems get bigger (bigger boats, bigger sails, bigger anchors), and as we get older, more power assists are required. A manual winch or windlass is a huge power assist. The ďmillieĒ just takes it another step along the way.

On our boat, with its setup and with our current abilities, an electric winch handle is simply not needed. Our manual winches are sized to manage the tasks. I did upgrade to self-tailors on the mains, which I would argue is one of the best things weíve ever added to Pachina Mia.

I take a different view towards safety. I think simplicity, maintainability, and reliability are most important. I aim towards tools that are either highly reliable (like chartplotters or radios), or that I can understand, maintain and repair myself. For me that equates to manual tools as much as possible: manual windlass, manual winches, windvane, etc.

Iím sure the electric winch handle is quite reliable. Maybe Iíll need one some day, 'but it is not this day.'

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
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post #79 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
WellÖ we could get into a discussion about equipment and safety. I personally would be concerned about becoming dependent on too many electrical gadgets, and what happens when they die. And as far as reserving your strength; perhaps Ö but if you donít use it, you lose it.

Thereís no doubt that as systems get bigger (bigger boats, bigger sails, bigger anchors), and as we get older, more power assists are required. A manual winch or windlass is a huge power assist. The ďmillieĒ just takes it another step along the way.

On our boat, with its setup and with our current abilities, an electric winch handle is simply not needed. Our manual winches are sized to manage the tasks. I did upgrade to self-tailors on the mains, which I would argue is one of the best things weíve ever added to Pachina Mia.

I take a different view towards safety. I think simplicity, maintainability, and reliability are most important. I aim towards tools that are either highly reliable (like chartplotters or radios), or that I can understand, maintain and repair myself. For me that equates to manual tools as much as possible: manual windlass, manual winches, windvane, etc.

Iím sure the electric winch handle is quite reliable. Maybe Iíll need one some day, 'but it is not this day.'
A Millie does not mean you can't use a winch handle and muscle power... same with a windlass... you can anchor without one or if it fails... you can hand steer if your AP fails... You can do manual dead reckoning or celestial if your GPS chart plotter fails...

You can even raise and lower your head sail in the groove if your furler becomes jammed.

These are safety features... make sailing easier and more doable by a short handed crew.
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post #80 of 139 Old 02-16-2018
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Re: I was told that for safety offshore you need 45

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
A Millie does not mean you can't use a winch handle and muscle power... same with a windlass... you can anchor without one or if it fails... you can hand steer if your AP fails... You can do manual dead reckoning or celestial if your GPS chart plotter fails...

You can even raise and lower your head sail in the groove if your furler becomes jammed.

These are safety features... make sailing easier and more doable by a short handed crew.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you’re saying easier means safer. I’m saying safer is more complicated than that in the context of boat system. As I say, I view safe systems on my cruising boat in terms of simplicity, maintainability, and reliability, not just ease of use.
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