Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 22 Old 02-01-2019
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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
We read online about replacing keel bolts. I wonder how many sailors or actually doing this? And why? Is it a sort of routine thing... bolts need to be replaced after X years?

Are there signs that bolt(s) need to be replaced?

Are there catastrophic failures from bolt failures? How many?

Who has changed their keel bolts and what were the circumstances?



Is the keel bolt replacement thing more common for some manufacturers?
Thread drift alert!

I have replaced the keel bolts, or to be more accurate, the PO replaced the keel bolts on my boat immediately before I purchased it. I remove the keel nuts every other year and inspect/clean the threads of the nuts and bolts. Had the keel bolts not been replaced, the keel would wobble from side to side. This would affect sailing performance, cause the boat to heel excessively, and would allow water to enter the bilge.

There have been instances of the keel FALLING OFF O'day 302 and 322s because of an insufficient fiberglass layup in the keel stub. See this thread for some horrifying stories with pictures: https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...lost-keel.html

Maine Sail started a thread on wet bilges that I weighed in on here; https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...-nuisance.html

Start another thread (so that we don't further derail this one) if you wish to get more info.


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post #12 of 22 Old 02-12-2019
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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
We read online about replacing keel bolts. I wonder how many sailors or actually doing this? And why? Is it a sort of routine thing... bolts need to be replaced after X years?

Are there signs that bolt(s) need to be replaced?

Are there catastrophic failures from bolt failures? How many?

Who has changed their keel bolts and what were the circumstances?

Is the keel bolt replacement thing more common for some manufacturers?
Iíve been away from internet for a bit and just catching up. If you started a new thread, let me know and Iíll move this post over.

As in all sailing related matters, this really depends. If you have stainless steel bolts and a lead keel, in theory, your bolts could outlast you. The risk is crevice corrosion, if they ever get wet in or below the bilge. We all know that stainless steel must be exposed to air to prevent rust. Submerged it corrodes quickly. They can get wet from a leaky bilge or through the keel joint, from below the waterline. Inspection makes sense. You canít tell from above the nuts.

Galvanized bolts into an iron keel are a different kettle of fish. More likely to corrode, even inside the bilge, which can be seen. However, whether they are corroded below the bilge is still hard to tell. I just replaced mine, which looked very badly rusted in the bilge, but were perfectly good below the nuts and in the keel. Itís great peace of mind to know they are new now and Iíll do a better job keeping the bits in the bilge corrosion free. Iím probably going to paint them with cold galvanizing.

While inspection is called for, itís actually tough to do. In our case, the keel adhesive sealant was pressed up the stud to the back of the nut, making it impossible to see below. I probably could have noted water seepage, or severely corroded studs, but would have no idea what was going in the portion mated to the keel itself.

Keeping oneís keel joint water tight is critical to the longevity of any form of bolt and hard to know if itís the case.
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post #13 of 22 Old 02-12-2019
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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

It's pretty difficult and an unrealistic expectation to keep that joint water tight.
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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
It's pretty difficult and an unrealistic expectation to keep that joint water tight.
Depends on the style. Ours mates to the hull directly, creating a 90 degree joint. I fair that joint with 4200, like I was caulk a bathtub.

If a keel is mated to a stub, I would consider reefing a groove to apply this kind of replaceable sealant.

Much better than running the risk (eventuality) of water getting to the studs.


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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

I have always thought that this joint was secure because there is no sign of water seeping out when the boat is hauled. Do others consider this a fair assessment?
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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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Depends on the style. Ours mates to the hull directly, creating a 90 degree joint. I fair that joint with 4200, like I was caulk a bathtub.

If a keel is mated to a stub, I would consider reefing a groove to apply this kind of replaceable sealant.

Much better than running the risk (eventuality) of water getting to the studs.
Considering the forces and the boat is heeled over and pounding the waves to expect no movement is unrealistic. 4200, 5200 are not strong enough nor elastic enough to not develop a crack... and it doesn't take much of a crack for water to penetrate.

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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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Considering the forces and the boat is heeled over and pounding the waves to expect no movement is unrealistic. 4200, 5200 are not strong enough nor elastic enough to not develop a crack... and it doesn't take much of a crack for water to penetrate.
True for 5200, not 4200. It remains rubbery and it easy to replace every few years.


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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo View Post
I have always thought that this joint was secure because there is no sign of water seeping out when the boat is hauled. Do others consider this a fair assessment?
The water can be quite small, so I don’t think you’d see it seeping out. For an iron keel, you might see rust at the joint. However, that could be as simple as surface rust from the slight separation, or a penetration that reaches the bolts. No way to visually know.


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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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True for 5200, not 4200. It remains rubbery and it easy to replace every few years.
dunno about the different coefficient of elasticity... but neither will keep that joint water proof if the boat is sailed upwind in heavy seas.

Where did you get the notion it would?

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Re: Amount of lead in fin keel of 1969 C&C 36 ft sailboat

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dunno about the different coefficient of elasticity... but neither will keep that joint water proof if the boat is sailed upwind in heavy seas.

Where did you get the notion it would?
Itís not a notion, itís been field tested for years. As you noted, the movement is slight. The elasticity of 4200 is fully sufficient to take it up. I check the joint each Fall and itís never failed. On an iron keel, rust at the joint is a tell tale, even if it doesnít get all the way into the bolts. I replace the 4200 every few years.


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