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post #31 of 43 Old 09-16-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I really worry about any "wait 2-3 boat lengths" idea.
In practice I suspect most of us would start the engine, drop the sails, do whatever it took.

I see the MOB recovery lessons we teach more as an excuse for boat handling drills than real world recovery technique.

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post #32 of 43 Old 09-16-2015
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Let's not forget though, that a great many sailboats have outboard engines. If you're sailing, the outboard is probably tilted up and out of the water. To start it you have to turn to face it, lower the engine, play with the choke, start it and hope that it starts on the 1st attempt. If your only crew member falls overboard, ( everyone doesn't sail with 4 people and an instructor) You have to be the spotter, the sailhandler and the helmsman. I do believe it's valuable knowledge to know how to sail back to an MOB.
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post #33 of 43 Old 09-18-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Tried it again today and the close reach beam reach worked great.


One time it didn't work because the student was very slow turning the boat and went a few boat lengths on a beam reach before she finally started going downwind.

We just jibed, sort of a quick stop, then managed to pick up the pole.

We also tried a quick broad reach maybe 3 at the most boat lengths then a tack and hove too and it worked very well. We were very close to the COB and very close.

Everyone was very impressed with how easy it was.

The boat I'm using is a O'day 36 so it has quite a bit of momentum, not sure it that helps us a lot or not.

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It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Am I the first to point out that COB and MOB procedures are extraordinarily different? One require several manueuvers, the other requires sail trim.


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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

One of the important points made in the excellent report that eherlihy linked us to: http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/..._Symposium.pdf , (thank you, btw) is that the maneuver that works best for your boat may be different than what works best for someone else's boat. Figuring out what works for YOU is key. We have done drills at our club where each boat is issued a watermelon prior to the start of a race, and the Race Committee calls over the radio for them to be tossed overboard at an inconvenient time during the race. Boats that fail to toss and retreive their "victim" are penalized 2 hours in corrected time. Many of the issues mentioned in the US Sailing report: keeping the victim in sight, stopping/slowing the boat, and getting the "victim" back aboard, become hot topics in post-race discussions. The right answers are what works.
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post #36 of 43 Old 09-21-2015
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Would note most modern boats are main sail driven and hove to poorly most likely fore reaching at 1-2kts.
Would note most cruisers stand single handed watches. So in the water means likely dead so most effort is training crew in using harnesses, strong points and jack lines regardless of conditions or time of day.
Would note once seas are >4' likelihood of seeing mob decreases dramatically.
We've tried the various above techniques on our boat as daytime drills with varying success depending on conditions and decided.
First throw mob module.
Second blow air horn to bring people on deck.
Quick stop.
Start engine but leave in neutral.
Then decide which technique to use.
Believe appropriate technique depends on conditions at that specific time.
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post #37 of 43 Old 09-23-2015
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

number one rule of mob. Someone must NEVER take their eye off mob.
Sailing short handed this is nearly impossible.
If you take the time to drop sails and start the engine in rough weather, mob is gone!
Falling off and tacking to heave to is the fastest way to save a life.
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post #38 of 43 Old 09-23-2015
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Would note most modern boats are main sail driven and hove to poorly most likely fore reaching at 1-2kts.
Would note most cruisers stand single handed watches. So in the water means likely dead so most effort is training crew in using harnesses, strong points and jack lines regardless of conditions or time of day.
Would note once seas are >4' likelihood of seeing mob decreases dramatically.
We've tried the various above techniques on our boat as daytime drills with varying success depending on conditions and decided.
First throw mob module.
Second blow air horn to bring people on deck.
Quick stop.
Start engine but leave in neutral.
Then decide which technique to use.
Believe appropriate technique depends on conditions at that specific time.
It's also worth remembering that people don't usually go MOB on a nice day.

We're told over here to forget about starting the engine:
1. It wastes precious time you don't have
2. A propeller (particularly an outboard propeller) can badly injure someone in the water.
3. Propellers are great at snagging loose lines in the water (usually a spinnaker or jib sheet let fly as part of the quick-stop/return) which - snatched tight suddenly at precisely the wrong moment - will be a serious distraction, could injure someone else or send them overside also and also potentially disable your boat.

If you haven't seen them, the best gadget I've come across to help with MOB recovery (and practice) is the SOSDanBuoy. If you haven't got one on board it's well worth considering.
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Last edited by Classic30; 09-23-2015 at 08:07 PM.
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post #39 of 43 Old 09-23-2015
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Agree with C.
Several venders now offer CO2 charged mob units which when deployed generate a very tall pylon you can see and a radar target.
Mob can swim to it and hang on. You can see it and find mob.
We did a drill with 3' beach balls. Bought them during the winter so cheap and got a few. Put a small amount of water in them so not so wind driven. Bright orange and white. Lost them doing the figure eight . Lost them doing the quick stop.
Drill was simple. Usual watch at helm with immediate access to mob button on the mfd. Other person sat in front of house. Without warning tossed a ball over the rail.
Tried it with warning ( blast on air horn) at night . Hopeless . A personal epirb or AIS is on everyone of our harnesses/life jackets. Think danger of losing locale of mob is present regardless of where you sail. Think that's the biggest issue not pick up technique given most boats are a sailing couple or short handed. Maybe on a big race boat with ten plus crew things are different. Maybe if the boat only goes out when it's 5-15 and seas are flat things are different.
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post #40 of 43 Old 10-02-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Broad reach close reach COB procedure

Last Sunday had another class with 5 people. So we did the MOB drill 6 times and were successful every time.

The wind was a little more than we had in prior classes. Not bad by any means probably 10-15.

We tried a few variations because we had students and they sometimes didn't react perfectly. We tried broad reaching a little longer, or shorter and quicker and slower.

The only thing I made sure happen was that they turned the helm hard to windward after the tack as the jib backwinded tended to blow the bow down.

The only modification I made due the increased wind was to throw off the main sheet when we were about 10 feet from the MOB to kill boat speed.


We had a spotter of course, but I was pleased to note that while I was watching the boat and helmsman after the tack the MOB was always dead ahead within about 30 degrees and only 2 to 4 boat lengths so pretty easy to find. However, I will put some reflective tape on my pole in the future just to be safe.

If anyone else wants to try this out and report back to this thread with your results and type of boat and conditions I would appreciate it.

I only know how to do this from close hauled so will do more testing from other points of sail.

Process
1. MOB
2. Fall off to broad reach for about 2 to 3 boat lengths (do not change sail trim)
3. Tack, Do not release the jib (Yes you will be tacking about 150 degrees.
4. As soon as the jib becomes back winded turn the wheel hard over to windward
5. Sail to your MOB while close-hauled

You will be going very slowly and no one has touched a sheet during the whole maneuver so far.
You have to steer upwind of your mark several yards. The bow wants to get blown down.
Keep your MOB downwind from you.

Depending on the speed of the boat you may want to throw off the mainsheet to slow down.

Once you are within about 5 to 10 feet from the MOB and about 10 to 15 feet upwind you can steer downwind to bring him alongside.


Try it please and let me know how it goes.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 10-02-2015 at 08:39 PM.
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