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post #51 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

Just stop the boat.

what's so hard about putting the bow into the wind?

if you have a kite up its pinned against the mast flapping but who cares? you prefer to lose the life of the mob than rip a precious spinnaker?

Greg said "systemic" and it is a systemic failure when peoples lives rate less than a boat, sail or race.

you just can't waste lives anymore. when the photo below was taken it was the workers who were blamed for falling off. Was that fair? Would that happen today?

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post #52 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

damn computers.... photo won't attach.

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post #53 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Mark, our kites are 4,000 sq ft, we simply cannot paint them to the spar and motor upwind like that. We have to loose the kite to get back upwind, the quickest way to do that short handed is to cut it away. I don't care about the sail.
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post #54 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
if you stop the boat quick enough the MOB has probably swum close to you anyway.
Nobody in a PFD and foul weather gear in cool or cold water is going to swim anywhere. The best you can hope for is that they stay on the surface.

Don't base your MOB drill on a fantasy.
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post #55 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
Nobody in a PFD and foul weather gear in cool or cold water is going to swim anywhere. The best you can hope for is that they stay on the surface.

Don't base your MOB drill on a fantasy.
I would walk across the water. as would anyone else seeing death swimming.

Dont try and derail a useful thought by calling it a fantasy. instead come up with a better thought.

start with thoughts that would save lives instead of just sacrificing paying customers.


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post #56 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

I've been following with interest the varying views about tethering or not - nothing new on this board, we've had these discussions many times before.

The helmsman was very clever to find an MOB dead or alive in one hour in a blow in open ocean at night - kudos to him.

The skipper was not very clever allowing untethered crew to work on deck in those conditions - where I live the inquest would probably result in him being charged with involuntary manslaughter.

I recall many years ago, the great Eric Taberly lost a man over the side at night in a blow (Whitbread RTW in the 70's if I recall). Their MOB drill consisted of a short prayer, an entry in the ship's log and back to the business of racing. The rationale was simple - in the unlikely event we find him, he's going to be dead, turning the boat around in these conditions endangers all others on board with no possibility of a positive outcome.

For those who think ocean racing is not safer today, reflect on that.
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post #57 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Just stop the boat.

what's so hard about putting the bow into the wind?

if you have a kite up its pinned against the mast flapping but who cares? you prefer to lose the life of the mob than rip a precious spinnaker?

Greg said "systemic" and it is a systemic failure when peoples lives rate less than a boat, sail or race.

you just can't waste lives anymore. when the photo below was taken it was the workers who were blamed for falling off. Was that fair? Would that happen today?
Any idea how much damage is done to a boat when a 115' carbon fiber mast explodes and comes crashing down to the deck while blast reaching at +25 knots? I have never had it happen to me and I hope I never do. But one of the first rules of life saving is never risk the life of the rescuer. Make sure you are safe first, then go after the other person.

It is highly likely that crashing the boat in such a way that the rig comes down could easily kill someone else. So now you have two people dead, a disabled boat, can't motor because there is so much debris in the water, and you haven't even turned around yet, just stopped.


Frankly I am very interested in the inquest into this accident. First I want to know why she wasn't clipped in in the first place. Second, if the water was so cold that an hour of exposure killed her, and it looks like that's what happened, why were the crew not wearing dry suits? If she drowned then what was wrong with her inflatable lifejacket that prevented her from floating.


My first rule offshore is stay on the boat, second rule is stay on the boat, third rule is if you fall overboard you are dead. Which is why I clip in and use as short a tether as possible. 6' teathers may be convienant but they are also dangerous and unessesary.

Greg

Last edited by Stumble; 04-03-2016 at 11:46 PM.
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post #58 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
I would walk across the water. as would anyone else seeing death swimming.

Dont try and derail a useful thought by calling it a fantasy. instead come up with a better thought.

start with thoughts that would save lives instead of just sacrificing paying customers.


Mark
Assuming the boat could be brought to a complete stop in 1 minute the boat would have traveled a little over 600 meters. An Olympic swimmer in that same one minute time frame, swimming in a pool, while wearing a speedo would at the most have traveled around 100meters. I hope you can walk on water for about 1/2 a kilometer, because that's how far away you are.

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post #59 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Inflatable life jackets have proven to be less then adequate.
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post #60 of 87 Old 04-03-2016
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Re: MOB death Clipper Race

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Before passage tell crew. Hit the mob button, yell for help/ blow the air horn and drop the mob module Turn on the engine. Drop/furl sails. In a trough turn on to the recipical when safe. If you are lucky and have three up one points at the mob, one helms and one plays the sails.
Guess even these racing monsters with full crew in less than a storm had their hands full turning the boat around before this poor lady succumbed to likely hypothermia.
So what advice do you give. Sailing back to point of the mob in a true storm seems ridiculous to me. Ain't going to happen in any reasonable time frame if it can happen at all on a short handed cruising boat. Her recovery took ~1h. Best bet is to try to power there. Or do you take the attitude of some of local commercial fishermen here abouts. They refuse to allow their kids to learn to swim. Thinking is if you leave the boat you're dead. If you can swim you just get to think about it for awhile. If you don't know how to swim maybe the fear of going in the water will help keep you on the boat.

First thing you should do, in general, after hitting the MOB button and yelling to alert the other crew, without much thinking, is tack and heave-to. Doesn't have to be perfect, just tack and get the jib backed against the rigging to slow or stop the boat as much as possible.

Granted good point that this might not be safe in this particular type of high performance vessel, but for most of us, the simplest thing to remember is just to heave-to and stop the damn boat.

Chute up is another monster as well of course, but sounds like this was an upwind sails kind of situation.
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Last edited by Argyle38; 04-03-2016 at 10:58 PM. Reason: typo
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