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post #101 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

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Bicycles ! ....... they fly down sidewalks then switch to the road at their convenience, most have no idea what a stop sign is or a red light, they demand the right of a pedestrian at lights and crosswalks they are totally unpredictable and although they don't pay any road/license tax they demand bicycle lanes be built everywhere even tho' they only use them when it's to their benefit. I am a cyclist. I love my belt drive Trek but find that most of them are just dicks.
That's the answer in a nutshell. Inside the nutshell there are divisions. My wife commutes on a bicycle, and I've learned a lot. She hates cyclists who ignore traffic signals and generally make cyclists look bad more than I do.

Don't forget the cyclist who ignores the multi-million dollar, barricaded, marked cycle path we built just for them to ride on the street with us.
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post #102 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

Well if there is anything the internet has taught us, it is that as soon as anyone does something wrong, its judgement day and let the hate party flow onto the entire group. I belong to a FB group that does traffic reports of a very icy mountain pass. No, it is supposed to do that, instead its a bunch of women posting cell phone camera pictures of cars that pass them too fast. Then yet another group chimes in to condemn the cell phone picture takers.
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post #103 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

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One of my pet peeves and a mystery to me is why people direct their road rage at bicycles.
Quite simply it's because many folks on bikes do not follow the rules of the road, IMO. I can't count the number of times when some bike has blown through a stop sign or traffic light to my right or left (I had a green or no sign) and I nearly killed them.
The way the rules were written back then, even if the bike was breaking the law, if you hit one, you were at fault. Even if you aren't at fault, just think of the hassles involved in a fatal accident.
Also, the roads were designed and built with motorized vehicles in mind and often there is just no safe place for a bike on those roads, once again putting the responsibility on the driver to avoid a bike which just does not have room to be there safely.
As in the story above about the motor boat, one becomes accustomed to certain actions from some segment of the population, so one expects it from all.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #104 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

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Quite simply it's because many folks on bikes do not follow the rules of the road, IMO. I can't count the number of times when some bike has blown through a stop sign or traffic light to my right or left (I had a green or no sign) and I nearly killed them.
The way the rules were written back then, even if the bike was breaking the law, if you hit one, you were at fault. Even if you aren't at fault, just think of the hassles involved in a fatal accident.
Also, the roads were designed and built with motorized vehicles in mind and often there is just no safe place for a bike on those roads, once again putting the responsibility on the driver to avoid a bike which just does not have room to be there safely.
As in the story above about the motor boat, one becomes accustomed to certain actions from some segment of the population, so one expects it from all.
This is the problem. Yes there are bikes that blow stop signs- there are cars that do that, too, and just as frequently around here. And the rules of the road are the same for the bikes- they have every reason to be on the road. If you want to pass because Miss Daisy is doing 25 in a 40 in her Caddy, it's the same rules for the road biker. The fact that cars are more ubiquitous than bikes doesn't mean that they are more 'right'. It's a perception problem.
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post #105 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

Also, the problems are specific to the place you are. On a Caribbean island there are certain types of roads and in New York other situations. Around here we see a lot of rage that bicycles can share the driving lane, which the law says they can. They just have to stay to the right. But for Bubba and Mrs Bubba charging down the road at 65 mph in their $75,000 4 wheel drive monster truck or SUV, its a real outrage as they are accustomed to thoughtlessly crushing and killing any living things actually in the road.

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post #106 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

I know this is a sailing forum, so I apologize for the drift, but…

An interesting thing is that pedestrians are objectively much worse than bicyclists, but there is very little pedestrian rage. Accident reconstructions and studies done with traffic cameras show that pedestrians are much more likely to violate traffic laws than bicyclists, such as crossing in the middle of the block or crossing against lights. Fatality statistics back that up: per mile travelled, walking is roughly three times as dangerous as bicycling.

Yet no one has pedestrian rage. I suspect it's because we are all pedestrians, but only some of us are bicyclists. So when we see someone crossing in the middle of the street we don't freak the hell out, we realize that we've done the same. And if a pedestrian is doing something incredibly dangerous and/or stupid, we think "that guy is a menace," we don't think "all pedestrians are menaces."



I would also like to correct the tax myth. People like to think that their gas and vehicle taxes pay for all the roads. It varies by locale, but nowhere in the United States is this true. Only about half of the cost of our roads are paid for by usage taxes and vehicle and gas taxes generally go to pay for highways, while city streets are usually paid for from property and sales taxes.

So if you are driving your car down the highway and pass a bicyclist you can feel a little smug, because your car paid for most of that highway and the bicyclist is receiving a subsidy.

However if you are driving your car down a city street and pass a bicyclist, you should give them a tip of your hat. You and the bicyclist both paid the same property and sales tax to build that road, but the bicyclist is taking up a smaller portion of it, is not putting any wear and tear on it, and at the destination will not take up a parking space.


People who object to subsidies to bicycling infrastructure are often blissfully unaware of the massive subsidies already in place for motorized traffic.
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post #107 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

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Ha ha, around my home port, pretty much all the fisherman believe they are the stand-on vessel. They're a menace, particularly at the mouth of the channel from Lake Michigan to Muskegon Lake. From a mile out, you can see that you may be on a collision course with one of them as you sail toward the channel, but they proceed as if it is their intent to either collide or drag their lines across your bow. They get very upset when when you sail near their lines (we smile and wave).

Maybe I could confound them by putting the biggest fishing pole I can find in a rod holder at my stern. Sailboat on starboard tack engaged in fishing...I could rule the seas.
That is absolutely no exaggeration, I purchased my boat in September out of Harbor Town marina spent a couple of days in the area doing shake down sails, before leaving to sail the boat home to the Black River off the St Clair River, man oh man that channel is crazy as well as Muskegon lake at the mouth of the channel, weaving through a bunch of small fishing boats with a 10 tonne vessel kinda makes you think if these guys have any clue as to what we weigh and what the results of a collision would be. The salmon must have been running good as the fishing boats were as thick as thieves in the channel or the lake is just too rough for the smaller vessels.

Sometimes GOD calms the storm, At other times HE calms the sailor and sometimes he makes us swim........ Anonymous
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post #108 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

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It's a perception problem.
Not hardly!
If a car blows through a light a bit of metal and plastic gets trashed. If a bike does it someone usually DIES!
THAT'S why I get angry. If his mistake costs me all kinds of legal hassles and time, I have no recourse at all: he's dead. I may even go to jail, and I even didn't do anything wrong.
Nope, it is NOT perception, it is fact. Irresponsible bike riders are the ones who create the dislike for bike riders on the roads.
And as for equal rights, until the bikes get taxed for using the roads like the cars, I don't see equal rights anywhere in the picture. Bike riders are coasting for free on the roads vehicular traffic pays for.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #109 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Re: Clueless Sailors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
I know this is a sailing forum, so I apologize for the drift, but…

An interesting thing is that pedestrians are objectively much worse than bicyclists, but there is very little pedestrian rage. Accident reconstructions and studies done with traffic cameras show that pedestrians are much more likely to violate traffic laws than bicyclists, such as crossing in the middle of the block or crossing against lights. Fatality statistics back that up: per mile travelled, walking is roughly three times as dangerous as bicycling.

Yet no one has pedestrian rage. I suspect it's because we are all pedestrians, but only some of us are bicyclists. So when we see someone crossing in the middle of the street we don't freak the hell out, we realize that we've done the same. And if a pedestrian is doing something incredibly dangerous and/or stupid, we think "that guy is a menace," we don't think "all pedestrians are menaces."



I would also like to correct the tax myth. People like to think that their gas and vehicle taxes pay for all the roads. It varies by locale, but nowhere in the United States is this true. Only about half of the cost of our roads are paid for by usage taxes and vehicle and gas taxes generally go to pay for highways, while city streets are usually paid for from property and sales taxes.

So if you are driving your car down the highway and pass a bicyclist you can feel a little smug, because your car paid for most of that highway and the bicyclist is receiving a subsidy.

However if you are driving your car down a city street and pass a bicyclist, you should give them a tip of your hat. You and the bicyclist both paid the same property and sales tax to build that road, but the bicyclist is taking up a smaller portion of it, is not putting any wear and tear on it, and at the destination will not take up a parking space.


People who object to subsidies to bicycling infrastructure are often blissfully unaware of the massive subsidies already in place for motorized traffic.
First of all, I am a cyclist but a responsible one.
In Canada I pay a tire tax, an air conditioning tax on the a/c in my car, I pay tax on my car insurance and emissions tax and I pay for license plates, the cyclists pay none of this. I am required to carry ID when I drive so I can be ticketed if I do something illegal, not so for cyclists. Pedestrians are incapable of flying off a sidewalk at 20-25mph, across a "crosswalk" ( you do get that it's called a "walk" not a cross "ride" .... right?) so they can get around a red light. then fly back onto the road giving a finger to the guy trying to (legally) go around a corner. They ride down the road three abreast holding up traffic when right next to them is a bile lane paid for by all the extra taxes car drivers pay. The vast (not all) majority (especially the spandex ones) leave their brains at home when they saddle up.

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #110 of 135 Old 10-24-2016
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Taxes serve more than one function. For example, fuels ranging from gas for your car, to home heating oil are facing a new tax in Canada called a carbon tax.

This tax is intended primarily as a deterrent to environmentally unfriendly practices, like driving cars and buying big inneficient homes.

Basically, if more people were riding bicycles, I wouldn't be punished by the government for heating my home through Ottawa winters.

Not saying I agree or disagree with this carbon tax, just saying, the taxation issue is more complex than motorists pay it and cyclists don't.
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