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post #1 of 13 Old 11-04-2016 Thread Starter
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wing and wing

Do you agree that wing and wing is by definition also sailing by the lee?




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post #2 of 13 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: wing and wing

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Do you agree that wing and wing is by definition also sailing by the lee?
I used to race a 20' one design keel boat for many years in the "white sails" class. Lots of races all summer and several trips to nationals.
We sailed it DDW, but not by the lee. Matter of fact we usually tried to keep the TW a tad over the quarter on the jib side. We would let the pole ease forward a bit - sometimes quite a bit - to maintain speed when we were almost but not quite... on a reach.

So, by definition, I would say: "no'.

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post #3 of 13 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: wing and wing

Agreed with Loren. It can be does not have to be or shouldn't be. I almost never sail DDW, because the swell in the Pacific when offshore makes it hard to keep from sailing by the lee as the stern gets pushed around. I could run a preventer but it is too much work I'd rather just sail at a hotter angle and make up for the heading change with boat speed.

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post #4 of 13 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: wing and wing

It's only by the lee for a moment, just before the mizzen gybes
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post #5 of 13 Old 11-05-2016
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Re: wing and wing

I would submit that it's much easier to prevent the jib/genoa from collapsing when sailing WonW if you are slightly 'by the lee', esp without any sort of whisker pole.

I wouldn't say it's part of the definition, but I would say it works...

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post #6 of 13 Old 11-05-2016
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Re: wing and wing

Yeah, the definitions are unrelated. Wing and wing is when the sails on different sides. By the lee is when the wind is coming from the same side that the main is on. You can sail wing and wing either way. Sailing slightly by the lee is often the fastest way to sail DDW with white sails, as Faster describes, but I'd keep it slightly on the jib side if there were taller waves or squirrely conditions.

In a true displacement boat, if you can get to hullspeed DDW, there is no faster way to get to a point in that direction, which is often the case when I'm doing something like a windward-leeward race. My only way to heat it up is to sail a little bit by the lee if the conditions allow for it.


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post #7 of 13 Old 11-07-2016
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Re: wing and wing

Sailing down wind "by the lee" simply means that the main boom is on the windward side of the yacht. If the main is prevented forward it's not particularly risky provided the leach is forward of the apparent wind. We have sailed down wind "by the lee" with and without a whisker pole although it is not something I like doing as it takes concentration and a gentle hand on the helm. Even though one sails somewhat farther, reaching off and gybing down wind can be faster, overall, and makes for less excitement.

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Last edited by svHyLyte; 11-07-2016 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Correct typos.
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-07-2016
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Re: wing and wing

I find that about 2-5 degrees by the lee is most stable, with a tight preventer. Because it is a cat, no whisker pole is used (wide beam). If I used a pole it might be DDW.

Yes, even on a cruising cat it is provably the faster way DDW, unless the chute is up. Nice for sailing down a river, since minor turns require jibing only one sail at a time.


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post #9 of 13 Old 11-07-2016
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Re: wing and wing

Faster and Chip nailed it.

Without a whisker pole, I need to sail by the lee to keep the jib from collapsing. Not needed if poled-out.

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post #10 of 13 Old 11-08-2016
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Re: wing and wing

The boom will not be in danger of jibing until the apparent wind gets onto the opposite side of the boom. Many unintended jibes happen because the main boom has NOT been let out all the way. It's too far inboard. This is often considered safer. It is not. If you get a sudden wind shift, the wind has a much easier time getting onto the opposite side of the boom. If it does, you will jibe. Keep the boom out all the way as close to the shrouds as possible. This gives you a lot more room to play with in shifty winds.

Last edited by tellemark32; 11-08-2016 at 08:55 AM.
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