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-   -   Lateral Marks (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-navigation/328620-lateral-marks.html)

davidpm 03-04-2019 12:13 AM

Lateral Marks
 
I had a discussion with a captain and new instructor and he brought up a concept that frankly, I'm not sure I agree with.

He claims that all marks on the east coast of the US are lateral marks in the sense that their color is meaningful and lets you know something about where safe water is.

For channels that is totally obvious. Red right returning and all that.

An example he uses is R "34" Cow and Calf off Branford Harbor.

Lots of guys have messed up their keel by thinking R "34" is a channel mark for Branford harbor and take it close to starboard and crack up.

My friend asserts that it is indeed a lateral mark but is for heading to NYC so it marks the northernmost side of the "LIS channel".

This concept seems totally useless to me.

If I'm in the fog in the LIS and see a Red mark unless I consult the chart I have no idea if I should take it on my left or right.

But in defense of his argument, there does seem to be mostly green makers on the north side of LI and mostly red markers on the south side of CT.

Apart from being an interesting observation, I'm not sure how it would help a navigator much if at all. I'm not even sure it is worth mentioning to a novice navigator.

Maybe there is some utility to leaning to the south for Red and north for Green but I doubt if it is even worth mentioning.


What do you think?

SanderO 03-04-2019 08:42 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
I think red and green when not marking a hazard can be confusing to the novice who will use the RRR GLG trick. Anyone who is sailing and not familiarized with the chart of the area they are sailing is going to get themselves and probably others into trouble.

eowin 03-04-2019 09:51 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.

davidpm 03-04-2019 10:15 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eowin (Post 2051587020)
the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.

Their is also the concept of going clockwise around a body of land.

BarryL 03-04-2019 10:57 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
Hey,

My only comment is that when I see an AtoN I make sure look at a chart BEFORE proceeding past it.

Barry

capta 03-04-2019 11:32 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
Take a few trips up and down the ICW and you'll get lots of first-hand experience with channel marks for various channels at intersecting points. If in doubt, it is best to consult a chart and if you must, come close alongside to whatever mark you are trying to identify.
One trip from Shelburne NS to Kingston Ontario, the fog was so thick we couldn't see the bow from the midships pilothouse, most of the trip. We got close up and friendly with many a mark to get their numbers off them.

tempest 03-04-2019 01:38 PM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
The Captain is Correct. It's just Situational Awareness. R-2 and R-4 lead you to Branford Harbor. How you get there ( To R-2 ) is more or less up to you.

Take a Look @ Sandy Hook N.j. Coming in there or leaving at night it looks like a Christmas Tree all lit up at night with so many Reds and Greens. You'd need to know which channel you wanted to be in, as they all more or less converge.

Why wouldn't anyone consult a chart, whether it's paper or electronic?

If, for instance, you entered an inlet Like Barnegat on the East Coast where there are Intracoastal marks and Then headed North in the bay, the Green intracoastal marks would be left to Starboard not Port.

Capt Len 03-04-2019 01:50 PM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
With a coast line that allows for multiple course choices studded with rocks cardinal bouys are pretty handy. The cones tell all about 'which side is safe' .As a side comment. red right return doesn't work in much of the rest of the world. Lack of thinking can also be a factor . For a common example .Returning (north ) into the Victoria BC area is Brotchie Ledge ( flashing green) Named after Captain Brotchie who left his ship there. Behind it is Victoria harbour entrance (red flash) Often seen, vessels, after challenging the International border, find wandering amongst the rocks of the Dallas Rd waterfront interesting.

capta 03-04-2019 01:58 PM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eowin (Post 2051587020)
the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.

Actually, you can have returning marks from a town north of an inlet, a town south of an inlet and incoming from an inlet (and don't forget the occasional river that flows into the ACICW) all converging at one point. Add to that any temporary buoys the CG has put in place for shoaling, etc. and one that some shrimper might have knocked down, and caution is the watchword. Do not assume anything.

Minnewaska 03-05-2019 06:54 AM

Re: Lateral Marks
 
Not sure I'm totally following. You can physically keep a red ATN to starboard at every single point on the compass rose, it just depends from where you begin. The RRR rule assumes you are returning from a larger body of water to smaller (ICW needing a different rule, since there is no large/small), which means you must understand which general direction that implies. In any event, no ATN can be properly interpreted, unless referenced to a chart to know which bodies of water it is intending to aid in navigating. What's the question? I'm confused.


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