Lateral Marks - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 Old 03-04-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,039
Thanks: 518
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Lateral Marks

I had a discussion with a captain and new instructor and he brought up a concept that frankly, I'm not sure I agree with.

He claims that all marks on the east coast of the US are lateral marks in the sense that their color is meaningful and lets you know something about where safe water is.

For channels that is totally obvious. Red right returning and all that.

An example he uses is R "34" Cow and Calf off Branford Harbor.

Lots of guys have messed up their keel by thinking R "34" is a channel mark for Branford harbor and take it close to starboard and crack up.

My friend asserts that it is indeed a lateral mark but is for heading to NYC so it marks the northernmost side of the "LIS channel".

This concept seems totally useless to me.

If I'm in the fog in the LIS and see a Red mark unless I consult the chart I have no idea if I should take it on my left or right.

But in defense of his argument, there does seem to be mostly green makers on the north side of LI and mostly red markers on the south side of CT.

Apart from being an interesting observation, I'm not sure how it would help a navigator much if at all. I'm not even sure it is worth mentioning to a novice navigator.

Maybe there is some utility to leaning to the south for Red and north for Green but I doubt if it is even worth mentioning.


What do you think?

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 03-04-2019 at 12:19 AM.
davidpm is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Senior Member
 
SanderO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Northport, NY
Posts: 2,916
Thanks: 2
Thanked 77 Times in 77 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Lateral Marks

I think red and green when not marking a hazard can be confusing to the novice who will use the RRR GLG trick. Anyone who is sailing and not familiarized with the chart of the area they are sailing is going to get themselves and probably others into trouble.

pay attention... someone's life depends on it
SanderO is online now  
post #3 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Lateral Marks

the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.
eowin is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 Old 03-04-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,039
Thanks: 518
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Lateral Marks

Quote:
Originally Posted by eowin View Post
the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.
Their is also the concept of going clockwise around a body of land.
wymbly1971 likes this.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
davidpm is online now  
post #5 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,244
Thanks: 4
Thanked 113 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Lateral Marks

Hey,

My only comment is that when I see an AtoN I make sure look at a chart BEFORE proceeding past it.

Barry
wymbly1971 likes this.

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BarryL is online now  
post #6 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 6,939
Thanks: 135
Thanked 365 Times in 353 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Lateral Marks

Take a few trips up and down the ICW and you'll get lots of first-hand experience with channel marks for various channels at intersecting points. If in doubt, it is best to consult a chart and if you must, come close alongside to whatever mark you are trying to identify.
One trip from Shelburne NS to Kingston Ontario, the fog was so thick we couldn't see the bow from the midships pilothouse, most of the trip. We got close up and friendly with many a mark to get their numbers off them.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is online now  
post #7 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,686
Thanks: 1
Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Lateral Marks

The Captain is Correct. It's just Situational Awareness. R-2 and R-4 lead you to Branford Harbor. How you get there ( To R-2 ) is more or less up to you.

Take a Look @ Sandy Hook N.j. Coming in there or leaving at night it looks like a Christmas Tree all lit up at night with so many Reds and Greens. You'd need to know which channel you wanted to be in, as they all more or less converge.

Why wouldn't anyone consult a chart, whether it's paper or electronic?

If, for instance, you entered an inlet Like Barnegat on the East Coast where there are Intracoastal marks and Then headed North in the bay, the Green intracoastal marks would be left to Starboard not Port.
SanderO likes this.
tempest is online now  
post #8 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,426
Thanks: 5
Thanked 135 Times in 134 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Lateral Marks

With a coast line that allows for multiple course choices studded with rocks cardinal bouys are pretty handy. The cones tell all about 'which side is safe' .As a side comment. red right return doesn't work in much of the rest of the world. Lack of thinking can also be a factor . For a common example .Returning (north ) into the Victoria BC area is Brotchie Ledge ( flashing green) Named after Captain Brotchie who left his ship there. Behind it is Victoria harbour entrance (red flash) Often seen, vessels, after challenging the International border, find wandering amongst the rocks of the Dallas Rd waterfront interesting.

Last edited by Capt Len; 03-04-2019 at 01:59 PM.
Capt Len is online now  
post #9 of 25 Old 03-04-2019
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 6,939
Thanks: 135
Thanked 365 Times in 353 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Lateral Marks

Quote:
Originally Posted by eowin View Post
the direction for "returning" is north to south along the coast. So it's a lateral mark with respect to that direction. The number being 34 is also a clue as they increase while returning. going from "R34" to "R2" means they are not part of the same channel.
Actually, you can have returning marks from a town north of an inlet, a town south of an inlet and incoming from an inlet (and don't forget the occasional river that flows into the ACICW) all converging at one point. Add to that any temporary buoys the CG has put in place for shoaling, etc. and one that some shrimper might have knocked down, and caution is the watchword. Do not assume anything.
davidpm likes this.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is online now  
post #10 of 25 Old 03-05-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,225
Thanks: 82
Thanked 541 Times in 518 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Lateral Marks

Not sure I'm totally following. You can physically keep a red ATN to starboard at every single point on the compass rose, it just depends from where you begin. The RRR rule assumes you are returning from a larger body of water to smaller (ICW needing a different rule, since there is no large/small), which means you must understand which general direction that implies. In any event, no ATN can be properly interpreted, unless referenced to a chart to know which bodies of water it is intending to aid in navigating. What's the question? I'm confused.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to Steer Using Sail Trim and Centre of Lateral Resistance Arcb Maintenance/How-to Videos 5 01-17-2019 04:48 PM
Lateral Balance Jock-san Racing 2 12-24-2003 04:51 AM
Remove Rubber marks on hull? Variant_530 Gear & Maintenance 2 07-11-2002 02:05 PM
removing black marks waltzingmatilda Gear & Maintenance 3 04-15-2002 06:08 PM
Racing Buoys / Marks PaulTV Racing 1 11-16-2001 10:01 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome