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Sailboat/powerboat collision chesapeake bay

10K views 53 replies 22 participants last post by  requiem 
#1 ·
Chesapeake Bay Magazine published an interesting article and video recreating last years J105/Powerboat collision. Put's it in the perspective of the Navigation Rules and how they are applied. It's worth a watch.

https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/vi...oat-collision/

(here is the You Tube link: )
 
#2 · (Edited)
I found the video to be a self serving advertisement for their business.
Anybody can see how it happened.
Two skippers were not paying attention! Rules of the road? When you are out sailing and a fast motorboat seems to be bearing down on you, it would make sense to change course to avoid a potential collision, even if you were the stand on vessel. As for the power boat, I'd bet there was something (a pretty girl?) distracting the driver.
No excuse; both were at fault and were dam lucky that nobody got hurt or worse.
 
#5 · (Edited)
So, imagine you are sitting in the seamanship class, and the instructor has finished explaining that you should have taken steps to avoid collision. Next, someone raises their hand and says "yes, but specifically, what was the sailboat supposed to do?" The instructor repeats "avoid," and the student says "No, exactly what would you personally have done, in what order, and why?"

Let's make some assumptions to narrow things down:
* Sailboat at 60 to true wind, since the jib is not that tight and the main sheet is not far out. A WAG, but we need to be specific.
* Powerboat was running about 15 knots and the sailboat about 5 knots. There was some wind and 15 knots is typical for these boats between fishing spots.
* We don't know if any last second course changes occurred. I recall they did not, but I don't remember the details. Assume not.

Fire away. No "on one hand...." allowed. What would you have done, and how early would you have done it.

I thought it was pretty funny that they never said specifically what the sailor should have done. Lame for a class.
 
#6 ·
Hi,

If it were me, I would harden up and go behind the powerboat. I would most likely hold my course until the powerboat was around 100 yards away and then turned up enough to safely pass behind the powerboat. I would give a loud long honk on my air horn as he passed me.

Barry

Fire away. No "on one hand...." allowed. What would you have done, and how early would you have done it.

I thought it was pretty funny that they never said specifically what the sailor should have done. Lame for a class.
 
#8 · (Edited)
"Turn early and turn big." That's what my Dad taught us as children. I know that the powerboats usually buzz close and go around us at the last moment, but you can't count on that. When you see someone big, or someone fast, make a turn away from them - like 180 degrees away - or at least enough away from them, that they can clearly see that you are making a course change. Use your horn. 5 blasts. I know that it's hard to hear, but it might just make a difference, and it will show that you were active in the after action report. No horn?
shame on you!! :devil Get one and keep it near and handy. And yes, I understand that sometimes you just can't do enough.
 
#9 ·
Too many unknown variables to know what I’d have done differently, as the sailboat. Obviously take some action, but how open was the seaway, depths to each side, other traffic, etc. Would one turn put me into the irons, as opposed to the opposite? Would slowing down be enough? Slowing is usually my first early move, if relative bearing isn’t changing and give way isn’t making a move. Next move is a big turn, before it’s too late, as needed.

The earlier one makes a change, the more options one has.
 
#12 ·
Too many unknown variables to know what I'd have done differently, as the sailboat. Obviously take some action, but how open was the seaway, depths to each side, other traffic, etc. Would one turn put me into the irons, as opposed to the opposite? Would slowing down be enough? Slowing is usually my first early move, if relative bearing isn't changing and give way isn't making a move. Next move is a big turn, before it's too late, as needed.

The earlier one makes a change, the more options one has.
Whimp! Say what you would do, period, no waffling.

Wide open on depths and traffic. We gave you the courses and prevailing conditions. That's all the information you have.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Our standard procedure for a powerboat approaching at speed on a collision course.

When the powerboat, having made no change of course or speed, is several hundred yards away, change direction tacking or jibing if necessary, to a course which is 90% away from the power boat's path. If the wind is light, start and engage the engine.

You cant make anything more obvious and you need to assume the oncoming boat is actually intending to change course and may do so simultaneously, so minor course changes on your part are dangerous.

On a busy weekend, we'll typically perform this procedure 3-4 times.

Something of a pain but better than what could happen.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
The problem with tacking in light air, particularly at the last moment, is that you may miss stays and that you may simple end up dead in the water, either way, due to lack of power and time to accelerate You may actually present a larger target. Remember, the tack is unplanned, so it may not go smoothly.

Tacking early is fine, of course... but if you were actually headed somewhere other than dead upwind (they were not hard on the wind) it's not your first choice for an early reaction.
 
#22 ·
The buffoonery involved in an accident like this always reminds me of a summer back in the 80's when I was a college student on a 40-foot ketch under sail toward the northwestern tip of Catalina Island (well away from the tourist traffic). Way off in the distance, miles away, we saw a powerboat come into view around the island. Almost immediately he was established in a CBDR situation. We watched as he got closer and closer, figuring that at some comfortable distance he would alter course (the first few minutes weren't even a concern since he was so far away). Finally a minute or so from a collision we blew our horn and turned away. Only then did we see a face appear in the cockpit, and he finally turned. Even if not, it's just unfathomable to me that someone could be so utterly oblivious. :hothead
 
#31 ·
Sad to say but it appears to me that many of the 60% or so of boat operators who actually understand the rules, ignore the "early and obvious" aspects of give-way. Looking at it from their mind, given their planning, they are unthinkingly leave the course change to the last minute to minimize their inconvenience. This becomes a big issue for sailboats regarding giveway powerboats at speed, as the speed issue puts an onus on the sailboat to react early to a lack of giveway. As a result , a diligent sailor often finds himself/herself changing course out of caution to ensure avoiding a giveway powerboat.

The again the other 40% just have no clue.
 
#26 ·
Okay dumb question...if you're in a CBDR situation. Especially in light air. Why would you not start your engine, so you can turn any way needed to avoid a collision?
 
#28 ·
Like the tack to get 90* away post. Don’t agree with the dead in the water in irons comment. You have a intercept point. As long as you don’t reach that intercept point there’s no collision. So either luffing or tacking or going in irons, or hoving to or any way you avoid reaching the intercept point will work. Anything that prevents two vessels from occupying the same space works.
Often we just change our speed. Just periodically luff up a bit to slow down. In this case looking at the vid would aim just behind powerboats stern. (Never like going across the bow of anything. You don’t know if the oncoming vessel can and will speed up or if you will have a problem and slow down. If you plan to cross behind the stern even a screwup means no collision). Then fall off as he passed by. Looks like wind was just behind the mast at a broad reach. So going to a close haul would have sufficed.
If I wasn’t rapidly seeing change in bearing or was concerned I couldn’t point high enough would just tack to a course parallel to him.
 
#29 ·
Will make a liability comment. In this case expect motorboat to be at majority fault but sailboat violated colregs as well and will have to accept some fault. So in the hypothetical let’s say the sailboat tried to tack and missed so went in irons. No colregs violation. No fault by sailboat. Still note if sailboat stopped he wouldn’t be hit.
 
#32 ·
No one has ever adequately defined when the stand-on/giveway rules specifically go into effect. We can all agree, when you first see a vessel on the horizon, both can do whatever they please. The moment you think.... geesh, we may hit each other, means someone passed that magic line already. Where exactly the line is crossed, no one knows.

I prefer to change early, before I think they apply. That doesn't always mean the other guy thinks they don't.

This past weekend, I was approaching two far off sailboats, heading nose to nose directly at me. I was on starboard tack, not quite close hauled, but not much room to maneuver to my starboard. To my port, was an island and shallow water with some maneuvering room, but not alot. The oncoming traffic was on port tack and should give way, when we get closer. However, they were obviously deep downwind, so their best move was to their port, or my starboard. To insure they chose it, rather than wait to see if they decided to run deeper and force me to hold course and speed and only allow me to evade a mistake on their part, by turning higher up on the wind, I chose to move my course off the wind by 5-10 degrees. Even though I was taking up space closer to the island, I had more maneuverability being a bit further off the wind. They then did the same to the opposite. Be a leader, even though they should have technically made the first move, if we both believe the ColRegs were in effect.

A major conflict between sail and powerboats, is the later usually has no comprehension of the concept of the irons or accidental jibes. They just think the sailboats are unnecessarily privileged.
 
#51 ·
No one has ever adequately defined when the stand-on/giveway rules specifically go into effect. We can all agree, when you first see a vessel on the horizon, both can do whatever they please. The moment you think.... geesh, we may hit each other, means someone passed that magic line already. Where exactly the line is crossed, no one knows.
This made me curious, so I took another look around. I don't have a copy of Cockcroft, but I do have Hirst's Collisions at Sea, which delves into how courts have interpreted such cases. He suggests a combined rule of thumb for both time and distance to assess a "close quarters" situation (i.e. the point before which the give-way vessel should have taken action):

a close quarters situation will arise at the distance at which the TCPA of the two vessels is 12 minutes or less if risk of collision then still exists, and in any event when the distance between the two vessels reduces below 0.5 miles in good visibility and below 2 miles in restricted visibility.

He also suggests a rough guideline to help the stand-on vessel determine the points between "must not", "may", and "must" for Rule 17: C-12 minutes marking a point when the stand-on vessel should be hailing or sounding the danger signal, C-9 as a "may" take action threshold, allowing time for a response to the hail, and C-3 as the "must" take action threshold (or of course sooner if the range has reduced below 0.5 miles).

I know that when I see a container ship in the distance, if it's headed my direction I want to know how much time I have to work with somewhat more than its precise range. I think these are also generally consistent with the radar ranges Arb mentions; if you're a container ship making 20 knots, 4 miles is the 12 minute mark. From a small boat perspective, imagining a 4-5 mile bubble set mostly forward of a ship seems to work well in approximating a danger zone to avoid.

(Yes, this is a slightly different question than the one of when the rules first go into effect, but I thought it still interesting.)
 
#34 ·
I think we've lost sight of speed and maneuverability. If I were in that situation as described above, I would start the engine (in light air), bring it up to speed and change course significantly, at the half mile point I feel is good for me, and head on a course that kept me clear of the motor boat, sailing for those few minutes would not be of any concern to me. Tacking, gybing, pinching up or easing off are all just imaginary actions when you only have a few seconds to avoid danger.
As the sheriff said to the hobo, "It's time to get out of town, and I don't mean tomorrow."
 
#35 ·
I think we've lost sight of speed and maneuverability. If I were in that situation as described above, I would start the engine (in light air), bring it up to speed and change course significantly, at the half mile point I feel is good for me, and head on a course that kept me clear of the motor boat, sailing for those few minutes would not be of any concern to me. Tacking, gybing, pinching up or easing off are all just imaginary actions when you only have a few seconds to avoid danger.
As the sheriff said to the hobo, "It's time to get out of town, and I don't mean tomorrow."
I call that a 'power tack' and I use it in the case of emergencies. Of course my emergencies usually consist of getting in a bunch of crab pots or not wanting to take the time to fight my way into the mouth of a river or bay when I come up just short.

That being said, The few times I have had close calls I didn't have time to even blow the horn let alone start the motor.
 
#40 ·
Even if you are familiar with the rules, sometimes it's still difficult to apply them effectively because we all have a different perception of when the give way vessel should have given way or is going to give way and that distance also varies due to multiple variables in the situation. If you make it a habit, as the stand on vessel, to give way to everyone who seems to be on a collision course witihin a pretty long distance such as half a mile, in busy waterways, there will be many boats within that range so you're going to be changing course almost constantly and will drive everyone else crazy who is also trying to avoid you because you are being so unpredictable. I think the "magic number" regarding the proper distance when to take action as the stand on vessel varies a lot with the situation and what types of vessels are involved, as well as what other traffic is in the area and the relative speeds of the vessels. If you usually wait until a hundred yards or so, that might work well enough with other sailboats that are also slow moving, but if you do that in front of a cruise ship, you'll discover they are moving much faster than they appear to be moving and your hundred yards is nowhere near enough room to buy you the space you need to avoid a collision.

In the discussion about this incident, it's been mentioned that the sailboat should have slowed down, but that's tough to do quickly while on a reach with a fast moving motor boat approaching. By the time you note that the give way vessel isn't, while you turn your rudder and adjust sails to begin to slow your speed, a lot can happen and it can be difficult to know just how big a speed change is enough. A change in speed is not going to happen instantly or be easily apparent to the motorboat and if he makes even a small course correction (conscious or unconscious) your 50% change in speed that seems drastic to you can easily be defeated. I think that in the situation as described, the sailboat tacking would have been the best thing he could have done because it completely changes your relative geometry with the other vessel very quickly and will be readily apparent to the other vessel if he even sees you. Even if there is a watch keeper on the other vessel, if you are on a steady collision course with him he may not see you on a clear day because your relative bearing will be unchanged and that can be a problem if your relative bearing happens to align with even a small obstruction in his field of vision that's close to his head. That's one reason a big and obvious change in geometry, such as a tack, is helpful to both change the potential collision geometry and to help make you more likely to be seen by the other vessel.
 
#41 ·
For most boats if you go into irons you stop in a few yards. You can play with it. Luff both sails. Then just before momentum causes you to stop bear off. Then repeat. Even the worst powerboater will recognize you’re doing something as he/she sees the luffing sails. Like I’d said if you see no change in bearing do that a few times and problem solved. You don’t have to turn on the engine nor touch a sheet. Surrounding sailboats will recognize what you’re doing. If you want more work just aim at the stern of a crossing vessel awhile until resuming your course is safe. I can get newbies with no knowledge of colregs to sail through a busy bay following those two thoughts. Still think the issue here wasn’t colregs but rather neither vessel noted there was no change in bearing.
 
#42 ·
Very good point that I was meaning to make: Rarely is it only two vessels coming upon each other in open water. There are other vessels, shallows, and other obstructions that may make changing course unsafe. Classic example is when you are give way with one boat, but stand on with another boat. What do you do then?

Has there been any public statement about what the fishing boat captain/crew were doing at the time of collision? Did they claim to not see the sailboat? If so, why? Or, did the captain lawyer up and refuse to answer anything?
 
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#43 ·
In his lengthy, repetitive and rambling advertisement and self-promo (in which he shies away from ever disclosing his relationship between the two entities), John Martino (owner of Chesapeake Bay Magazine and Annapolis School of Seamanship) covered some but not all of the material points:
1. The courts will almost always find a way to "split the baby" and assess a portion of fault or blame to both parties. Read about the Stockholm and Andrea Doria.
2. I do not believe he ever mentioned the danger signal, which is of course in the Rules and everybody should have a sound signaling device handy and use it. In so doing, I have been able to avert collisions many times, just as I was about to invoke the General Prudential Rule and break the Rules, to take evasive action, but I got the other operator's attention. MANY. TIMES> MANY. DIFFERENT. SITUATIONS...power sail...you name it, even with a Navy YP boat. I am always heartily thanked by Pilots and towboats if I call them on 13 near the ship channel, or operating in their path.
3. I have followed this story, and as I recall, that fishing boat was just built as an inspected vessel (as I recall...) and was on one of its first voyages as a passenger-carrying fishing boat. It was almost certainly operated by a licensed professional, as am I, since 1980. Where did that skipper get his training??? Hmmm...hmmm.??? How come Mr. Martino never mentioned anything about the boat or its operator?
4. The amount of comments all over social media continue to press home the point that many boaters are confused and mistaken about The Rules. In other threads, some have brought up the fact that the boat was "fishing" as if it were material but it is not in this case. Even with trolling or pulling light lines (at that speed???) it was not "fishing" according to the Rules nor was it constrained in its ability to maneuver. If so, it should have displayed a dayshape...but who does that?
5. "Right of way" is an incorrect and obsolete term. Martino touched upon this in some detail...as expected, thankfully and to his credit. Each vessel is expected to act in accordance with those Rules and each is REQUIRED to break them to avoid collision if in Extremis. Similarly, even in this thread, the obsolete and incorrect terms "privileged" and "burdened" were mistakenly used.
6. If you and I were operating the powerboat, we would have had a lookout. Yes? No question!That is a Rule as well. Did this powerboat or did the sailboat?? If so, why did the fishing boat "stand on"? Did the sailboat have a lookout? If you and I were sailing, we would have been expecting that sooner or later a powerboat would be zipping by. We would have been watching that powerboat for a few minutes, assumed it did not see us and that it would "stand on" and we would have been prepared to blow the danger signal, call on 16 and be ready to stop, slow or turn. Did Mr. Martino mention VHF or a horn? I do not think I would have resorted to the engine (as some have suggested) for many reasons, including wasting the time (would it start immediately? Might you have fouled the prop perhaps? Would it have kept you from actually avoiding the collision by sailing?), whereas releasing sheets or turning sharply away, stopping would have likely averted collision. Consider this--there were only a few seconds where a collision was imminent and unavoidable, and therefore the right move within a few seconds would have lessened it to only a near-collision (or is that a near-miss? What is a near-miss?). Therefore, acting within a few seconds--on the part of one or the other or both vessels, would have averted a collision. We're not talking 200 meter freighters at possibly as much as 20 knots or tugs with barges.
7. This all comes back to knowing and following Rules that have been developed over hundreds if not thousands of years of maritime tradition and are now LAWS, as written in the Code of Federal Regulations. It's adherence to or violation of those Rules which will determine, fault, damages and punishments. So...what is happening in the courts?
8. Is there a court case? An ongoing NTSB or USCG investigation? Nobody seems to mention anything about this. Why did boating publisher and seamanship school owner Mr. Martino not say anything about this? And curiously, was Martino in any way paid to produce that video? He has a history of not disclosing his conflicts of interest, so I am as I said...curious.
9. Wow--were those folks fortunate! No injury! No sinking! The sun and good fortune were smiling that day, when I was also out on the Bay. How did the fishing boat just slide up and stop on top of the sailboat? Imagine if it hit the mast or a chainplate and the mast came crashing down--or if the sailboat or powerboat took on water rapidly and pulled one or both down!
10. Finally, as a professional boating and seamanship trainer licensed since 1980, I cannot even count how many of my prospective or actual clients are often overly concerned about docking, backing into a slip and close quarter maneuvering. I urge them all to make that a secondary or tertiary concern after open-water operations, maneuvering at higher speeds, Rules of the Road and general seamanship. Just read the USCG statistics about boating accidents and fatalities! It is almost always due to operator error in one form or another, and fatalities rarely occur at the dock or near a marina--unless of course you use yourself as a human fender. Geeze--I could tell you stories! Remember the inimitable and wise words of Captain Ron:
If anybody knows anything about an ongoing legal or investigating activity, please share it with us here. Thanks very much Paul Foer, Annapolis
 
#44 ·
Just read the USCG statistics about boating accidents and fatalities! It is almost always due to operator error in one form or another
I know this isn't a popular topic, but have we reached a tipping point where education to obtain a boating license should be mandatory? The waters in some areas have become markedly more crowded. Boats have become more reliable, more powerful and more automated. Today it's easy to get on the water with little to no knowledge or training.

I can walk into a dealership and buy a center console with four 300HP outboards and be out on the water with no instruction. Just turn the key and go.

Even states that have a "boating certificate" like New Jersey aren't doing much. I took the required course and anyone with an IQ three above a tree could pass.

Sailors in general tend to be at least aware of the rules of the road. That has a lot to do with the personality of a person attracted to sailing.

That's not the case with a large percentage of power boaters - and that's not necessarily their fault as they're not required to learn.
 
#46 ·
My experience as a sailor has been that changing course to avoid a potential collision sooner is always the better choice, and that most boaters haven’t a clue about rules of the road, and are not paying attention to others whereabouts out on the water.

The only issues I have with recreational power boaters is unnecessary and harmful wakes, and that for whatever reason, they will not reduce speed in close quarters, which in turn increases the odds of collisions and injuries. They seemingly don’t understand that such behavior is literally a menace to themselves and others on the water. Not paying attention and high closing speed is the root cause of boating collisions.

Fair winds,
 
#48 ·
We do our best to stay 5m from any traffic in open ocean. That way...
Avoid weird frustrating attempts at conversations with non English as first language speakers.
Course changes (which are rare in that setting) are far enough away to allow appropriate safe response.
No possibility of collision or being waked. Being waked by a big ship is dangerous not just an annoyance.
 
#50 ·
We do our best to stay 5m from any traffic in open ocean.
To me this is an interesting post. When I first read it I was a bit surprised by it. 5 miles is a pretty big CPA (Closest Point of Approach). But when I thought about it for a bit, it makes some sense.

Commercial sea Captains do leave "night orders" for navigators who will be alone on the bridge while the Captain/ cheif mate will not present on the bridge.

I don't ever recall seeing 5 miles, but I have seen 4 miles on open water.

Any way, I think it can be beneficial to choose a specific CPA to follow on open ocean.

From my RADAR training, which is probably a bit dated, I recall 8-12 miles being the "detection range" 4-8 miles being the "action range". By going 5 miles, commercial ships are probably not even thinking about you. Which is probably a good thing.
 
#52 ·
requiem, that's the first I've ever seen an attempt at precisely defining it. Thanks for posting. Made me think that these distances can't be defined the same for large container ships and small center consoles, let alone a sailboat doing a few knots. If I was knocking along in @Arcb new Dyer dink at 3 kts, another Dyer a half mile away would seem to be in a different zip code. It's always been a complex topic.
 
#53 ·
Really like the above few posts as they speak to reality.

Due to the way my convoluted brain works I think of all navigation as vector diagrams. Be it set, drift, current, vmg, or collision avoidance. AIS has been a HUGE help but doesn’t abrogate the need for a HUMAN watch. As we continue to evolve to be increasingly tech dependent in our daily lives this is increasingly violated by any vessel with an AP or windvane.
Returning to the OP it seems reasonable to assume both vessels were on AP. You can have all the tech in the world but someone needs to on WATCH and thinking about collision avoidance. Human eyes need to be used given the absence of AIS or effective radar reflectors on many vessels. A human brain needs to be employed to make course or speed corrections even when targets are seen on electronic aids or zones are violated.
However, once you can “set and forget” it remains common for no designated watch to be set or the watch to not be doing their job. This is particularly difficult for those who single. I will expand my scale on the screens, review radar and AIS targets, and review my course before going below to get a drink, use the head or anything . I will defer any activity that causes me to break my visual watch until until I’m certain there’s no risk. I do this even when there’s others on board as it’s my d-mn boat and I’m stuck being the master hence responsible. Only exception is with experienced crew and then the watch is formally transferred. I can’t tell you the number of times (in all settings) we’ve gone past a vessel with no one at the helm. Believe this not lack of colreg knowledge is a prime source of accidents.

As an aside I’ve become increasingly convinced night sailing is safer. Think it’s actually harder to see vessels during the day. You can see a fish boat with its deck lights blinding out its nav lights miles and miles off. Cruise ships glow in the sky much like land. Given height of eye the curvature of the earth has virtually no effect on ships. Even small boats are much less likely to get lost in sea clutter at night. This drives my wife crazy as I like to do my short transits at night and aim for landfall at the break of dawn.
 
#54 ·
I agree, the distance depends on the ship. I think the time is much more adaptable to changing technology. Thanks to Google Books, I see mention that the '72 conference considered and rejected a definition for "risk of collision" based on simply projecting courses and speeds; the precendent in the courts was that the risk doesn't apply with long distances and slow speeds. Here's the example from 1887, an overtaking situation where the two vessels were only doing 6 or 7 knots.

"Now at what period of time is it that the Regulations begin to apply to the two ships? It cannot be said that they are applicable however far off the ships may be. Nobody could seriously contend that if two ships are six miles apart the Regulations for Preventing Collisions are applicable to them. They only apply at a time when, if either of them does anything contrary to the Regulations, it will cause danger of collision. None of the Regulations apply unless that period of time has arrived. It follows that anything done before the time arrives at which the Regulations apply is immaterial, because anything done before that time cannot produce risk of collision within the meaning of the Regulations"

-- Lord Esher in The Banshee (1887) 6 Asp.Mar.Law Cas.221 (Court of Appeal)

@TakeFive might be interested here, as reading a bit more about that case, I see that it actually involved three vessels: Banshee, Kildare, and a pilot cutter. A similar but far more recent case also involved an overtaking situation, with a third vessel crossing. (Brief summary and the longer ruling.)
 
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