What's your biggest bonehead move sailing? - Page 61 - SailNet Community
Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.

 191Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #601 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Shnool,

I could see that if one loses grip of the handle while releasing the valve lifter with the other hand, leaving no hands to support the body while crouched over the engine in the e.c. In my boat (PY-26) the only access to the motor is aft and opposite the forward mounted flywheel, so it is quite precarious even without the necessity of getting an arm right down to the crank. By all accounts the Volvo is fairly bulletproof, but the electrics are situated immediately to port which means the flywheel will dip into water if the bilge has a few inches of water in it, and of course spins so to spray batteries, wires, terminal blocks, relays with corroding salt-water. PO or POx2 seems to have allowed this to occur for a time leading to a motor which looks great on the LHS, notable rust on the RHS, and some min or intermittent operation of electrics. I can envision a situation in which a large wave temporarily fills the cockpit leading to salt-water in the rear bilge and non-functioning electronics. Add weather conditions which require using the motor and a situation could easily develop in which manual starting remains the only option.

The solution is to (obviously) make damn sure that (a) the crank handle is always available in a known location, (b) the bilge remains bone-dry, and y (c) familiarity with the manual start procedure such that one does not have to struggle to crank the silly thing in deteriorating conditions. The first two are relatively easy to assure, but anyone with small stature or injury could quite find themselves incapable of turning the crank quickly enough to accumulate sufficient momentum to ensure a start.

I suppose the take-away is that events can conspire to put a boat in peril without regard to the skills of the pilot or state of the equipment on-board. All one can do is minimize risk and be aware that all eventualities cannot be anticipated. To that end I have a metric buttload of work to do.
SailingUphill likes this.
Frogc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #602 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 13,230
Thanks: 91
Thanked 128 Times in 123 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Can you make a splash shield for the electrics? I'm thinking of something along the lines of the heat shielding in auto engine compartments - a bent piece of aluminium plate or similar.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
SloopJonB is online now  
post #603 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

SloopJonB,

A shield made of some sort of plate should be practical, but I would be inclined to use acrylic instead of metal.

I intend to re-do much of the electrical system; which means soldered connections, shrink-wrap tubing, and dielectric grease everywhere it needs to be. I will also consider epoxy to waterproof splices if they are unavoidably located at low-points. Check this out: the cabin's automatic bilge-pump wires are spliced into wire that runs in the bilge from just behind the mast-step and under the floor-liner to the e.c. The connections are protected with bog-standard electrical tape. This is no big deal as long as the only water in the bilge is leaking fresh-water (fixed), but I expect salt-water to result in a blown fuse (if there is a fuse) or a dead battery...
Frogc is offline  
 
post #604 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 7,140
Thanks: 137
Thanked 382 Times in 370 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Can you make a splash shield for the electrics? I'm thinking of something along the lines of the heat shielding in auto engine compartments - a bent piece of aluminium plate or similar.
I should think that using a non conductive plastic would be infinitely superior to any metal for this.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is online now  
post #605 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Back to just the Jon boat
 
therapy23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 941
Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogc View Post
SloopJonB,


, but I expect salt-water to result in a blown fuse (if there is a fuse) or a dead battery...
Nah. It won't short. It will just corrode slowly.
therapy23 is offline  
post #606 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Therapy23,

Way back in my misspent youth I did a school project demonstrating electrolysis in salt-water, so I know there is going to be current draw with + and - soaking in the drink. Perhaps not great gobs of power, but certainly something. Lacking a great deal of experience with marine 12V systems, I don't know offhand how much, but I would be surprised if it is negligible.

Disclaimer: Not an EE.

1974 PY-26
Volvo-Penta MD-6A
Frogc is offline  
post #607 of 615 Old 07-18-2016
Back to just the Jon boat
 
therapy23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 941
Thanks: 5
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogc View Post
Therapy23,

Way back in my misspent youth I did a school project demonstrating electrolysis in salt-water, so I know there is going to be current draw with + and - soaking in the drink. Perhaps not great gobs of power, but certainly something. Lacking a great deal of experience with marine 12V systems, I don't know offhand how much, but I would be surprised if it is negligible.

Disclaimer: Not an EE.
Me neither but I have been around salt water and 12v a bit.

Perhaps you are due for another experiment.
therapy23 is offline  
post #608 of 615 Old 07-19-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by therapy23 View Post
Me neither but I have been around salt water and 12v a bit.

Perhaps you are due for another experiment.
Perhaps. Let me backtrack a little and round out the problem a little more clearly.

Automatic bilge pump has two wires connected to the DC system as you would expect. The + and - wires are not insulated from salt-water which might accumulate in the bilge where they are joined and extended to terminal blocks aft. Salt water at 20C has a resistance of .2 Ohms with electrodes separated by 1m according to "The Net Of A Million Lies".

The wires in question -- wrapped in typical electrical tape which should not stop salt-water reaching the conductor much at all over time -- can be considered to be in a short-circuit state for the purpose of this gendankenexeperiment as their separation (+ to -) is much less than one meter. I would expect furious gas production in the bilge as the battery attempts to jam 500 "CCA"+ across the all-but-short-circuit.

Maybe I should try it out, but frankly I am chicken. I don't want to break anything unnecessarily. If I have not messed up my constants I'd say that 12V marine batteries and sea water equals time-bomb. JFC.

1974 PY-26
Volvo-Penta MD-6A

Last edited by Frogc; 07-19-2016 at 01:56 AM. Reason: Added cussing.
Frogc is offline  
post #609 of 615 Old 07-19-2016
Once known as Hartley18
 
Classic30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,179
Thanks: 52
Thanked 85 Times in 85 Posts
Rep Power: 14
   
Dock
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogc View Post
Perhaps. Let me backtrack a little and round out the problem a little more clearly.

Automatic bilge pump has two wires connected to the DC system as you would expect. The + and - wires are not insulated from salt-water which might accumulate in the bilge where they are joined and extended to terminal blocks aft ......
Well, I suppose not using a bilge pump controller (with in-built fuse for 'bonehead prevention') under the circumstances you describe could certainly be classed as a bonehead move. They're not expensive.. really.


-
A bad day on a boat beats a good day in the office
Classic30 is offline  
post #610 of 615 Old 07-19-2016
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: What's your biggest bonehead move sailing?

[QUOTE=Classic30;3584721]Well, I suppose not using a bilge pump controller (with in-built fuse for 'bonehead prevention') under the circumstances you describe could certainly be classed as a bonehead move. They're not expensive.. really.

In this particular case the bonehead is clearly the person who previously placed their dirty grabbing appendages on the electrical system without adult supervision. No question I dodged a bullet here.

Edit:

I feel I ought to clarify my criticism here as there is not enough context for an uninformed reader to appreciate the harsh tone of the above comment. Firstly, my remarks over "dodging a bullet" are accurate, but are not entirely based on my observed state of the bilge pump wiring. It is a no-brainer to observe that wiring subject to water immersion should not allow conductors to come into contact with said water. Never. But on a boat piloted in salt-water it is not unlikely that sea water will get into the bilge for one reason or another, and the existing setup guarantees that the automatic bilge pump will fail in short order if this occurs. Strike one.

This was not the only problem with the electrics. As delivered, the boat came with three batteries. Two 6V golf-cart batteries wired in series were also mated with a single 12V marine battery also wired parallel to the GC batteries. The 12V was completely destroyed as evidenced by warped and buckled plates which had fractured and expanded almost out of the electrolyte fill ports. Quiescent voltage on this battery was approximately .6V after removal. I have do not have the diagnostic capability to properly assess the GC batteries, but they seem to hold a half-decent charge despite the abuse they must have suffered. Strike two. The main battery switch, which is typical and allows for two battery banks was wired 'backwards and sideways', for lack of a better term. A serious hazard. Strike three. The batteries themselves were unsecured in the engine-space and could have easily bounced around the EC in heavy seas or as the result of a collision while tethered to their respective cables. Strike four. As I mentioned in another message, engine compartment bilge water was allowed to reach the engine flywheel without bailing and splashed all over the electrical system mounted to port of the engine. Sufficient running time under this condition has led to corrosion on the engine block and notably to two engine mounts which will require replacement sooner rather than later. Strike five. All of these electrical system defects are easy fixes, requiring only trivial expenditure to remediate, destroyed batteries notwithstanding. It is apparent that the boat has been used extensively while these extant defects permitted to fester. Strike six. Lack of an engine-space bilge pump is a further regrettable oversight. Strike six point five.

The Internet is sometimes a small place and the responsible PO might become known and it would be unfair to level the 'bonehead' label on the basis of the bilge pump alone. Lacking electrical competence, he should have refrained from working on it and referred the matter to a competent professional.

1974 PY-26
Volvo-Penta MD-6A

Last edited by Frogc; 07-19-2016 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Venting
Frogc is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
to move or not to move, that is the question. QuickMick General Discussion (sailing related) 5 10-12-2010 06:58 PM
Where to move to now, so we can eventually move aboard? Chrisbloom7 Living Aboard 21 01-08-2010 11:09 AM
Bonehead move of the month Ajax_MD Seamanship & Navigation 18 12-09-2009 09:44 PM
Diesel Fuel Tank Woes...or Bonehead mistake of the season rperret Gear & Maintenance 9 10-07-2007 09:32 PM
Mickelson Makes The Biggest Move (Hartford Courant) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-18-2006 04:15 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome