Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico - Page 28 - SailNet Community
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post #271 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Wife works in neonatal special care and ICU. Also spends some time on the floor. I did pedi neuro for awhile. She was in truck as we were driving down to put the rags on the boat this weekend listening to the NPR interview. Both of us said
1.not moral to take a 0-1 y.o on a boat as they can be DEAD in hours if sick.
2.highly questionable to take 1-5 y.o. on boat beyond coastal day sailing and only then if no prior recent illness.
3. What's up with the rash? Something missing in the story.
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post #272 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

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I don't know, it actually seems to raise more questions, for me :-)

I find it difficult to imagine how a "broach" that dipped the boom - presumably vanged or prevented to the rail, perhaps? - would alone cause the failure of the hull to deck joint on a boat like a Union 36...
It is - to me - a riddle.

Even if the boom was vanged or prevented to the toe rail how does that damage the hull to deck joint?

If the connection was though-bolted I don't see how it could damage the joint...perhaps rip out/break the fasteners with some limited hole damage. Through-bolting provides a clamping force to the joint. Was the stress such that the torque caused the hull side or decking to splinter?

If the connection was not through-bolted why did the hull to deck joint get damaged before the fasteners rip out?

Why didn't the boom bend/boom connection fail/sail rip or the loaded shrouds give before hull damage occurred?

Was the damaged location accessible and carefully evaluated? What damage control efforts were used (plug/putty/tape etc) and were they successful or partially successful?

Once the vang/preventer tore out what kept the boom from hitting the shrouds and damaging the rigging? What actions did Eric take and how successful does he think they were?

Finally - in retrospect - what should have been done differently? What changes would be recommended to avoid a similar event...In setup? In design? In seamanship or watchstandng? In damage control?

Perhaps there are no lessons to be learned...but I doubt it. Every "event" has reasons for its occurrence.

Often the lessons can only be winnowed out by "detached" study of the facts. If the facts aren't available such study can't happen and the lessons are lost.

Perhaps I am wrong but maybe this is Jon's point. And I think it's a good one.

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post #273 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

the union 36´s have a weird(nice looking though) wooden flange that acts as the hull deck joint in the forward half of the hull

when I was in panama there was an abandoned union 36, that I was in love with...at first I thought it was a hans christian 36 but no...some building tweaks for sure...

it had been invaded by termites and basically there was so many potential leaks cause of the masive amounts of wood used... that I was even dreaming of making a flat steel deck instead of trying to fix the wood issues this particular boat had

basically the hull is glass but everything else is wood, the cockipt, the floors all use timber and wood, the liners, the deck hull joint forward, everything!

I can totally see that if one wood deck joint side, or big toerail if you will gets damaged you can have a LOT of water come in...especially in rolly seas...I can remember seing huge gaps at the "hull deck joint" in places

I havent read the last pages of anything here just commenting on the union boat design if you will

Merit 25 sold...Islander 36 still afloat? who knows...Im still in Columbus, and back...I think...jajajaja!!!!
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post #274 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

I think you meant to say offshore or there are a TON of immoral people just in Annapolis
My own son spent 10% of the first year of his life sailing and the average has continued

We can also pause to consider the percentage of the world's population who are always much more than a few hours from competent medical care. Maybe infinite hours from medical care.




Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Wife works in neonatal special care and ICU. Also spends some time on the floor. I did pedi neuro for awhile. She was in truck as we were driving down to put the rags on the boat this weekend listening to the NPR interview. Both of us said
1.not moral to take a 0-1 y.o on a boat as they can be DEAD in hours if sick.
2.highly questionable to take 1-5 y.o. on boat beyond coastal day sailing and only then if no prior recent illness.
3. What's up with the rash? Something missing in the story.
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post #275 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

yup...thats a very one sided argument there...I beleive I got into it in the beginning of this thread

thats like arguing against a family living in a cabin in alaska that has to ride 3 ferries and whatnot to get to "civilization" or a hospital...

are they inmoral?

Merit 25 sold...Islander 36 still afloat? who knows...Im still in Columbus, and back...I think...jajajaja!!!!
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

We are spoiled at least in Maryland. Shock-Trauma was INVENTED here and the state funds a helicopter rescue service. There is basically no place better on the planet to have a serious injury or illness taken care of. To someone used to this level of protection just leaving the USA can seem horribly risky.

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post #277 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

I've seen kids die from preventive causes because they did not seek medical attention in time. I seen this in families residing in metropolitan settings but more frequently when transport was an issue. You see that a few times and need to try to console the parents it colors your view. Healthy young adults sometimes don't realize how frail young life is. Neither are they aware how subtle the signs of serious illness can be in the pediatric population. Nor are they aware how rapidly things can go irreversibly south. I apologize for the mistake above. You are right I've done the same. But in any child 0-1 y.o. with recent illness I would not take them away from rapid access to medical care. Personally it would have to be a perfect day with a perfect child. I would coastal cruise with my children. We would day sail with in sight of land and rapid response until they were 5. I did not leave my home port until they were 6+. We did not go even if they had something as minor as a URI or inner ear infection.

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post #278 of 620 Old 05-12-2014
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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Wife works in neonatal special care and ICU. Also spends some time on the floor. I did pedi neuro for awhile. She was in truck as we were driving down to put the rags on the boat this weekend listening to the NPR interview. Both of us said
1.not moral to take a 0-1 y.o on a boat as they can be DEAD in hours if sick.
2.highly questionable to take 1-5 y.o. on boat beyond coastal day sailing and only then if no prior recent illness.
3. What's up with the rash? Something missing in the story.
From the beginning I've been saying this too. Something is definitely missing from the medical story. There are lots of clues, but probably not enough for us to know what really happened.

Most versions of this sick kid story are based on some kind of infectious disease. Simply knowing if she had a fever would be a very useful piece of the puzzle. I also found it interesting that Eric said they still don't know what happened to the younger daughter, even now. How could that be?

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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

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I listened to the Ira Glass interview when it was on this past weekend but did not hear which company's satphone it was. We have an Icon 802 and a bunch of VHFs but are in the market for a satphone. Would like to know which company behaved this way as would seem good to avoid them.
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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
I have an Iridum 9555 that I bought from a retail outlet of satellitephonestore.com in San Diego. The sales guy was straight forward, but my relationship with the billing department has been rocky to say the least. I use a lot of airtime and data as it's for my job.

- Twice I've had them disconnect my SIM card from their network for no apparent reason. It only took a phone call (via a cellular number) to clear it up, but still, disconcerting for long passages.

- I've had them change my billing plan without my authorization.

- I've had them charge me for overage minutes in addition to my prepaid plan amount, even though the minutes weren't overage at all and were completely within my plan limits.

- Just recently it seems they've broken my data minutes out from my voice minutes. So my "200 minutes a month" is really "200 voice minutes + data billed at $1.01/minute".

- I use uuplus as well and have had great results with them.

Is the breakout of data and voice normal in the ~$200/month prepaid range? This is several months in a row now of getting my invoice and finding things that are either wrong or questionable.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I've heard the SSB/HAM vs satphone debate quite a few times. Pretty unfortunate to have BOTH and have BOTH die on you. The simplicity of design and operation of the EPIRB certainly has it's place. This is probably why the Vendee Globe guys take anywhere from 3-5 of them along on their races.

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Re: Ocean baby rescue underway off Mexico

I live in a country where simple diseases go uncaught and people die every day from simple things...unfortunate but we have become much more appreciative of life and what is given to us

still that is not enough for me to say that its inmoral for a cruiser to take his kids sailing offshore in their early years and I say this being a sailor, with an 8 month old sittig in my lap as we speak
while Im waiting a bit to show him how to sail, cruise some coastal a bit, maybe after his first year...I agree maybe under a year is a bit young for the quikness needed in treating infants...we had a case where he choked on a bit of vomit and got into his lungs...

needing to go to a hopsital so he could get nebulizer treatment and antibitocs so he wouldnt get his lungs infected...we were really scared...he was only 5 months old.

so based on personal experience I can agree with the rationale to hold back a bit and be more conservative for the long term ocean passages with kids, but for coastal hopping even with infants I really cant hold any moral high ground or actively criticise anyone for chosing to do so...

its like people living in ghettos or projects, I often ask myself why they dont LEAVE why cant they move and seek a better life for their family?

I have a hard time not criticising them instead

thats just me though

Merit 25 sold...Islander 36 still afloat? who knows...Im still in Columbus, and back...I think...jajajaja!!!!
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